Todd Bentley’s Ministry: Fortune Telling at the Flea Market

When I was a little girl, we had a fortune teller in the town near where I lived.  Even though we were charismatic and believed in prophetic utterances, we were taught that was wrong.

Todd Bentley’s ministry, Fresh Fire USA, recently set up shop in a flea market.  Yes, a flea market!  (I guess that’s one place you can pawn your wares.)  The sign beside their table read:


To view the picture that Bentley published himself on his Plixi account, please click here.  (Let me know if the picture mysteriously disappears.  I have a copy of it.)

So, please tell me the difference between fortune telling and what Bentley’s crew was doing.

(HT:  Bud Press)

46 thoughts on “Todd Bentley’s Ministry: Fortune Telling at the Flea Market

  1. Beracah

    There IS now difference in fortune telling and what Bentley & crew are doing. I paged through the pics and saw the workbook (wonder how much he makes off that?) Who needs a workbook for this stuff?? The BIble is the only workbook anyone will ever need! …..The grill he has is lot like mine! (It’s a great grill)
    He’s done another ‘outpouring’ in reno, don’t know the dates, but I love the one pic of him on stage and the caption says he was struck by lightening (barf)… Central Florida is the lightening capital of the world. If he’d been struck, he’d have burns at a minimum, and possibly be dead. when someone gets hit, it makes the news here, so I’ve seen plenty of people who’ve been struck, and what it does to the human body. And with all that gear on stage, the bolt would jump from him to the next and the next, all in a split second, anything metal, or conductive….such as other people.

    Such a fraud.

  2. Carolyn

    Absolutely no difference between fortune telling and today’s prophetic or psychic readings! And it is forbidden in Scripture.

    Today, God’s so called people. remind me of Jeremiah’s day when the people said to him, we will bake cakes to the Queen of Heaven if we want to! And we will have Asherah poles and worship our pagan fertility Gods if we want to.

    And today “God’s so called people” are saying, we will bring Paganism, Occultism, Eastern Mysticism or Socialism into our Christianity if we want to! We will perform our contemplative rituals and walk our labyrinths if we want to. We will tell fortunes and prophesy good things and all will be well.

    Jeremiah’s message was to remember God. Put away your idols. If you don’t…the wrath and judgment of God will fall. Not a popular message. And even his tears and his concern for their welfare, could not change their hearts.

    Today, there are a few that have not twisted the Word of the Lord to fit their “prophetic preferences”. They still keep to God’s message, which is “remember who God is or you will experience his wrath”. Not a popular message! But true…God does not waste his words.

    Deuteronomy 18:9-11
    Occult Practices
    9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

  3. Annunk

    Nooooooo!!!!! Like you, we’ve got the private homes with “Fortune teller” or “Tarot cards read” on the building right here where I live too..

    The only difference I saw between this table and those ‘businesses’ was the word “FREE”.

    When you list “Spiritual Readings”, you might as well be talking about the same thing. AND LET ME GUESS!!!, NONE of the “spiritual readings” included ANYthing about repentence at all — but ALL of them had portions of “prophecy” in them about how God was going to BLESS them RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT NOW!

  4. Rev's Kate & Rich M.

    What the heck is on his mind? Icannot believe he is actually drawing unsuspecting people into the realm of Satan and under the guise of Christanity?

    He needs to be taken into an alley and…!

    He never surprises me; Todd Bentley is repulsive, disgraceful towards God’s word and believe me, rarely do I say such words–his actions are beyond description…God forgive me.

    If I am wrong, please someone set me straight. I am furious! K

  5. Theresa Bowden

    There is absolutely no difference – both done by a spirit of divination. It’s like the people that go to Christian conferences or seminars specifically to have somebody prophesy over them… they want their fortune told😦 And those false prophets work or play the crowds by giving generalized “prophesies”. They’ll say something like there’s somebody with back problems, knee problems, migraine headaches, etc. or call out a common name. In a group that size the odds of someone having those type of problems or having a common name are great, so it appears that they have some foreknowledge. It’s just a scam, and unfortunately there are a lot of Christians who get taken in by all of it. Very sad😦 And of course it is forbidden in the Bible and God calls it an abomination.

  6. Neal

    This reminds me of when my daughter went on a Missions Trip to New Orleans. They set up a table at Jackson Square near the fortune tellers. Their sign said “Fortunes Told for FREE.” Their pitch was “Do you want your fortune told you with Jesus in your life, or without Jesus?” They were able to witness and plant many good seeds.

  7. David

    What makes me think they are in a cult is how closed they are to any correction.I was in the new age movement before it was even called that.I have astro travelled and when someone pointed out Patricia Kings site it blew my mind she was teaching what I had done before being a christian.The prophets I looked up to were not 100 percent accurate,like the so called prophets of today they were getting better and better.Jean Dixon warned the white house J F K would be shot of course Satan would no of the plot .In saying that can someone tell me of a prophecy by the Apostle Rick Joyner that came to pass.

  8. Kiwi Dave

    The only scripture that immediately came to mind after seeing what Todd Bentley was doing at the Flea Market was Revelation 16:13 & 14:

    “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” KJV.

  9. Sean

    The only real difference is that Bentley’s group is pretending to represent God even though they are clearly disobeying His commands.

  10. Teresa

    @ Theresa Bowden Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You said……..There is absolutely no difference – both done by a spirit of divination. It’s like the people that go to Christian conferences or seminars specifically to have somebody prophesy over them… they want their fortune told And those false prophets work or play the crowds by giving generalized “prophesies”.

    It is amazing how the LORD protects his own. Having come out of the WOF/NAR prophetic movement. I was guilty of wanting a word from the LORD from these false prophets.
    There was a woman conference, around February 2006 at my old church in West Virginia. This so called “prophetess” lady was giving everybody a word. I would move hoping she would pick me, well she never did. I left the conference mad a God because I did not get a word. I got in my car and look in the rear view mirror and asked; What about me God? Why did I not get a word from you?
    Now, I kid you not, the LORD impressed in my heart these very words. What about you, you want a word from me, open your bible……… From that day forward, I never did that again.

    I have seen both sides in action. I “one time” went to a so called “Christian fortune teller” and I have seen “so called prophets” in action and there is no difference. Theresa Bowden is correct both done in “a spirit of divination”
    So, that is why God’s word very clearly in………1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. KJV God bless

  11. IWTT

    No difference!!!!

    Every year we have a Summerfest her in my town. The downtown area is closed and there are many vendors that set up their wares with concerts and food courts, etc. One year I was with the person that was incharge of intercessory prayer and he wanted to set up a both for the same thing, dream interpretation.

    I ignored what he suggested and it didn’t happen but I am sure since he was into IHOP, John Paul Jackson, Dutch Sheets and the rest that he was serios about it.

    It’s all about the supernatural and the idea of power evangelism. Who needs the word, just do something that is a ooooo and an ahhh and it draws people to, albiet a different, Jesus.

  12. sola5girl (forgivensinner)

    I WENT to a church that had a guest speaker where his church would do something similar. His way of justifying it was Joseph and his ability to interpret non-believers dreams. He also talked about prophetic instruments.

  13. Mike A

    Whatever happened to “servant evangelism”…..where you see the elderly couple down the street from you who need their lawn mowed (house painted, horses fed etc) and you just go and serve. You go to your church, get some youth (’cause they really need to learn what it means to serve – expecting nothing in return) and some supplies and you just do it. Or maybe you see a single mother at the grocery store with 3 kids in tow and it is obvious she is debating on whether she can afford the gallon of milk or not – you just buy her some groceries. The lost people of this world do not need their “fortune” told…apart from Christ we as believers KNOW what their destiny is….but it is our duty to serve them in love with a humble heart and watch as the LORD moves through us to save the lost.

    How dare Todd Bentley and his minions lead these people astray with false prophecies and false hope. I once felt so sorry for him. Now I am just appalled at the fact that he no longer hides is satanic trickery…he flaunts it with a smile.

  14. Rev's Kate & Rich M.

    Hi Neal. Ahh, Jackson Square, know it well. Full of kisoks of psychic/occultic and demonic activity.

    I promise you, they got a tongue-lashing, in Christ’s love, when we were down there and well, as I said, we plant the seeds… not harvest them, Rich and I.

    God’s word never returns void, praise God! K

  15. Kiwi Dave

    I used to work at an RSL (Returned Servicemen’s League) in Ettalong Beach, NSW Australia. Well, they had the annual Psychic Fair there!! There were Tarot readers and phychics and all sorts of esoteric rubbish happening. I arrived at work and saw the billboard advertising all the witchcraft and carry-on. The Word of the Lord reminded me that all these people were witches, and enemies of God from the beginning of time.

    The management used to wonder why all the bad things were happening such as leaks from the swimming pool one story above saturating the main dining room. The sudden power outages in the casino, and so on. One of the resaurant supervisors had a dog that wouldn’t gointo her kitchen at home because of a “malevolent presence” – and her son had massive problems as well. What did these expect when they supported the Devil? Did they expect the number one all time liar to reward them?

    It’s the same with Todd Bentley and all the others. All they can expect from the Lord is His wrath and Holy indignation! Don’t feel sorry for those that follow them either. They’re just the same as the followers of false prophets in the scriptures. They don’t want the truth, they want what satisfies the flesh – be it the lust of the eyes ( how many “christians” need a Ferrari or Cadillac?), the Lust of the flesh (we’ve seen that with Benny and Paula) or the pride of life (all those huge 10 bedroom mansions for two people to live in).

  16. Stan

    People generally don’t want something for free, see Namaan the Syrian. They believe the product is as good as the price. If they charged $25.00 for the reading, they’d get a lot of traffic, more if it was $100 per reading. Win Win right?

    ( Hope Bentley and crew don’t read this blog.)

  17. Carolyn

    Very good, Mr. Kiwi Dave…I like it.
    Yes, all these people looking for a little excitement from the underworld. Sounds like they had a little more than they bargained for. If only we could pull back the curtain and see the puppet masters…I think we would quickly agree with the Bible that we should not be playing around with these bits of fun.
    I actually had an experience with channelling myself; quite innocently. Years ago, for a time, I started writing poetry and it was very good. Yes, in fact…too good and I was obsessed. One day I wrote about the Yin and the Yang…didn’t even know what they were…but when I looked it up, I decided that a puppet master was guiding my thinking. And that was the end of that. I never wrote another poem.
    I had a friend that would wake up in the early morning and start writing, about the Bible…writing and writing and writing…reams of stuff…way too much stuff…and she had the most occult things happening to her….objects being moved, towels flying off dressers, lights being turned, mirrors falling, voices, thumps…oh ya…I’m pretty sure the two were connected. And what was it? but a distraction from proper study of the Word!
    So…moral of the story. The Word tells us to stay away from these things for a good reason and that includes Todd’s mediums. I think these verses cast a very different light on where we should be looking.
    2 Peter 1:2-4 (King James Version)
    2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
    3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
    4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

  18. Kiwi Dave

    @Stan, You’re kidding right? Todd Bentley and crew were charging $25 for those “sprirual readings”? Keep and eye out for the next big “thing” from the WOF movement and the others – “Christan Tarot”. They’ll have all those Catholic “saints” on them instead of the usual characters. I wonder if they’ll pick Benny to be “The Fool”.

  19. Rev's Kate & Rich M.

    Hi Carolyn. Good to see your stuff. You are absolutely correct: stay away from the occult, as expecting to see and hear “things” will certainly invite “things”.

    Lord help us–I’ve been there and done that all that in the name of God!? It’s crap… lies… all lies and because we may be desperate, yes even His elect, we will be fooled if we are not knowledgable and willing to follow the Word!

    I do not have time to be foolish and neither does anyone on this site–get it out there, family, Jesus is coming back and He will not tolerate anyone on the fence!

    God bless us and keep us loving,

  20. Carolyn

    Here is a very powerful verse.
    Isaiah 8:
    19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? 20 CONSULT GOD’S INSTRUCTION AND THE TESTIMONY OF WARNING. IF ANYONE DOES NOT SPEAK ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, THEY HAVE NO LIGHT OF DAWN. 21 Distressed and hungry, they will roam through the land; when they are famished, they will become enraged and, looking upward, will curse their king and their God. 22 Then they will look toward the earth and see only distress and darkness and fearful gloom, and they will be thrust into utter darkness.
    This verse in Isaiah really hits home how God centres his instruction/guidance to his people around his Word. And those who trust a false word get a false sense of purity and security. The word is what purifies our thoughts and transforms our faith. Like it says in Ephesians 5:
    …Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

    Satan’s strategy in keeping people busy with their supernatural fortunes will give them what they want now, but keep them from what they need later. When hard times fall, their idols will not provide for them or bring them any comfort and they will wander in desperation. It is so important to take warning now, while there are still watchmen giving warning…before the curtain of darkness falls and a greater deception takes hold. Tough times are on the horizon.
    Paul gives a comforting thought to those who want God’s solution and not their own.
    and I’m so glad for this one!
    1 Timothy 1:15
    … that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

  21. Dutchie

    @ Carolyn

    The problem is that they think they do the thing God wants them to do!
    They do believe that they are following God’s instructions. They come up with text’s from the Bible to “proofe” that they are right.
    Like the text out of Luke 11:11-13

    “If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children; how much more shall your heavenly Father give ghe Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”

    My brothers and sisters believe that God gives them the Holy Spirit because they ask for it, and they are so BLIND! They do not see it because they can’t. It is so sad, it makes me want to cry! Even when I confront them with this text The Acts 5: 32

    “And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.”

    It is Gods Spirit Himself that leads them, is what they think. It frustrades me that they will not even want to take time to listen to me. I keep praying that the Lord will open their eyes so that they will not be lost when He comes back. They think all these things are soooo important for the Lord but in Matthew 7:21-23 I read this:

    ” Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father wich is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast oud devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

    This text really scares me. It seems realy important for this believers but it is not important to the Lord since He does not even know them! Oh dear Lord, PLEASE open their eyes!!!

  22. Carolyn

    Dutchie, you said:
    It frustrades me that they will not even want to take time to listen to me.

    This frustrates us all. It frustrated Christ. But the answer he gave as to why they would not listen was quite simple and profound.
    John 18:37
    “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. EVERYONE ON THE SIDE OF TRUTH LISTENS TO ME.”

    He knew what he was talking about. Most people will not choose truth because their hearts are deceptive. They would never admit it (part of the deception of their hearts) but they would rather have a high standing with presidents and popes, an enviable academic education, status, success, sophistication, sociability, superiority, power, purpose, prestige, pampering, positive feedback…well you get the picture.
    Jeremiah 17:9
    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    I think on the day of judgement, we will see things a lot differently. We will be surprised by how many times the Holy Spirit made a plea for a truthful heart and how many times he was dismissed. I think we will be very surprised by a lot of things…

  23. Teresa

    @ Dutchie
    You said….. The problem is that they think they do the thing God wants them to do!
    They do believe that they are following God’s instructions. They come up with text’s from the Bible to “proofe” that they are right.

    Keep this scripture in mind as you read what I am trying to say.

    John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. KJV

    The New Apostolic Reformation are more dangerous than we can ever imagine. Rick Joyner in his book the Harvest says this ………The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord’s faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas…

    I just found this article that will tell you everything that would take me forever to tell you. Make sure you read every word of this article.

  24. Dutchie

    Thanks Chrystal for your comment, it opened my eyes again. I do see the things you discribe, the proud and wanting to be in the picture. Of course they will never admit it but I do see it.

    @ Teresa,
    thanks for the article, I will read it! Have to take time for it.

  25. Teresa

    @ Dutchie

    The comment you made brought back to my memory what I had researched over the last 3 years.
    You nailed it when you they think they are doing what God wants them to do…..and they do believe they are following the LORD instructions….. Sad but true. That article is important so please do read it………………….

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone and God Bless everyone……………..

  26. Dutchie


    I printed the article yesterday. Since English is not my first language (I am from the Netherlands) it is easier for me te read it on paper. Besides I am a mother of 4 childeren and we all share the same computer, so I will read the article but have to find and take time for it.
    Thanks again!

  27. Dutchie


    In the article you mentioned there is al quote of Rick Joyner, he says the following:

    “The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord’s faithful servants…..a great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas…” (THE HARVEST, Rick Joyner).

    Who for Pete’s sake is Phineas? Does anyone know? I looked for it on wikipedia, and this is part of what I got :

    Phineas features in the story of Jason and the Argonauts, and was married to Cleopatra, daughter of Boreas. Phineas and Cleopatra had two sons, named Plexippus and Pandion, who were mistreated by their stepmother, Idaea, who Phineas married after the death of Cleopatra. His residence was the city of Salmydessus on the Black Sea. This Phineas was said to be a son of Poseidon, or of Phoenix, and had the gift of prophecy. Zeus, angry that Phineas revealed too much of the plans of the gods, punished him by blinding him and setting him on an island with a buffet of food. However, he could eat none of it because the harpies, vicious, winged women, stole the food out of his hands right before he could eat.[1] This continued until the arrival of Jason and the Argonauts. They sent the winged heroes, the Boreads, after the harpies. They succeeded in driving the monsters away but did not kill them, as a request from the goddess of the rainbow, Iris, who promised that Phineas would not be bothered by the harpies again. It is said that the Boreads were turned back by Iris at the Strophades.[2] As thanks, Phineas told the Argonauts how to pass the Symplegades.

    This Phineas comes out of the Greek mythology, what has that to do with the Lords faithfull servants? What does the story have to do with what Rick wants for te church? Who would want to get this Phineas spirit? To me it does not make any sense and I wonder if there is anyone who listens to Rick Joyner who wanted to know who this Phineas guy is….People are just sooooo blind, they probably think: “Oh well, if Rick says so, it must be allrighty….”

    I simply don’t get it….

  28. Ruitje

    @Dutchie, in Dutch the name is Pinechas. He was a priest. You can read in Numbers 25 (Numeri) about him. The Israelites were following idols and there was judgement.

    Verse 7 and 8: And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.

    Phinehas was judging people and killed them.

    It is a very dangerous teaching from Rick Joyner, just as the teaching of Joël’s Army. It is all about the civil war Joyner is teaching, between the ‘blues and the greys’: the spiritfilled charismatics (like Joyner, the apostles and prophets) and the ‘religious’ people. A very dangerous teaching.

  29. Sean

    Hello Dutchie,

    I am far from being in expert in Rick Joyner’s beliefs. However, the name “Phineas” in relation to the Bible may refer to the grand-son of Aaron (Phinehas) mentioned in Numbers 25.

    There is an organization called the Phineas Priesthood described at this link:

    Perhaps this is what Joyner had in mind?

  30. Teresa

    @Dutchie @Chrystal, I am sorry I did not mean to open a can of worms

    Dutchie, I did not mean to confuse you. Numbers 25 you will find your answer.

    Phinehas’s were zealous for God and did what the LORD ordered them to do.

    This is where Rick Joyner gets his rising up with a “Spirit of Phinehas” from.

    This movement is dangeous.

    Read the story and you will understand.

  31. Teresa

    Ruitjie and Sean thank for you help.

    Dutchie this will help
    This part right here will explain what I mean.

    2. Manifest Sons of God>Joel’s Army> Man-culinary Company> New Breed> Overcomer’s> Phineas Priesthood, etc.:

    Latter Rain gives all these names and more for the same elite group within the Church. They will be Christ incarnated on earth and are considered equal to Christ as his body on earth, Jesus being the head. Their teaching is that Christ must first come within the church before he can come for the church. This teaching envisions a civil war within the church in which there will be a dismantling of denominations and traditional organizations and judgment on those who will not buy into this revival, even to the point of bloodshed (Phineas Priesthood). They will take over the world for Christ and most of the world will come under the domination of the church.

    Even to the point of blood shed(Phineas Priesthood) I believe this is exactly what Rick Joyner and all the NAR/Joel’s Army mean. This is part of their agenda………

    Read the full article because it is ligament and accurate.

    There is another movement that has been around for year call “Christian Identity movement” they refer to themselves as “Killers for God”

    In the Link that Sean gave you notice the man by the name of Richard Hoskins.
    He wrote a book (Very dangerous book called) Oh here is the link read.

    This is the book that Timothy McVey and Terry Nichols read that influenced them in the Oklahoma booming.

  32. Ruitje

    @Teresa, did you know that there is a connection with New Age? Alice Bailey has stated that the ones who don’t go along with the New Age (the true christians) will have to be eliminated at the end.

    “The goal of the New Age Movement has consistently been to bring in the Age of Aquarius when all will recognize ‘the God within themselves.’ A major step towards this in the words of the New Age prophetess Alice Bailey, is ‘the regeneration of the churches.’ Her vision was that… ‘The Christian church in its many branches can serve as a St. John the Baptist, as a voice crying in the wilderness, and as a nucleus through which world illumination may be accomplished.’ In a word, she desired the time when the ‘Christian churches’ would embrace the New Age concepts of illumination and self-realization. The New Age plan to bring in world peace cannot fully establish the Golden Age of Aquarius until Biblical Christianity is outlawed or destroyed.“— Richard Bennett

    This is exactly happening in the dangerous teachings like Manifest Sons, Joel’s Army. They see themselves as the New Breed, the Illimunated, the elite and the ‘little gods’.

    The prophetic/apostolic movement has the New Age-agenda.

  33. Teresa

    @ Dutchie

    Forgive me for confusing you. I will be more careful in the future and stay on topic, so sorry. I found one last article that will hopefully help clear this up for you.
    I hope this help you understand what I was trying to say. They think they are doing what God wants them to do or instructs them to do but they are not.

    As Ruitjie said this is a dangerous teaching from Joel’s Army/NAR.
    My point was they (NAR) will remove anyone who does not submit to their teachings or their authority…etc… etc……………

    Here is one more article that will also help you understand. I will paste the full article but I am going to copy and paste one part of the article.

    Full article

    Next past I pasted from article….. At the bottom when it say ACCORDING TO SOME……………….important……..

    Restorationist and Dominions proponents believe that, as Joel’s Army, they will conquer the nations before Christ returns, dispensing judgment on the ungodly and those who reject their leadership. John Wimber and Paul Cain taught their followers to expect that they will ‘police’ the nations:

    “It is also interesting to see how Cain used prophecy to confirm the Latter Rain teaching that evangelizing would result from the supernatural power which was going to be given to believers. This teaching was central to Wimber’s message. In the same speech Paul Cain prophesied that the new breed would possess power to overcome the enemies of the gospel and strike terror into them, ‘There’s going to be an awesome, reverential fear and respect for the church because the church is going to regain her power, lose her restrictions, lose her weakness . . . you’re going to be called upon by presidents and kings of nations, heads of state. . . God is going to have his army and they are going to be a fearful bunch and they are going to go to every place on the face of the earth. . .” 8

    Rick Joyner, who works with Cain and has shared platforms with Bob Jones, expressed a similar elitism in ” The Harvest.” With this ‘army’ and ‘the harvest’ comes the removal of any who refuse their teachings and those labeled as stumbling blocks. According to Joyner, “very young Christians [who] will be pastoring large bodies of believers” will also “remove the stumbling blocks.”

    “. . .Some pastors and leaders who continue to resist this tide of unity will be removed from their place. Some will become so hardened they will become opposer’s and resist God to the end. Most will be changed and will repent of their resistance. . . . There will be many “stumbling blocks” circulating in the Church that will cause confusion and some destruction from time to time. They will perceive themselves as prophets sent to judge and deliver. Those serving in leadership must trust their discernment and remove the stumbling blocks.

    “To be distinguished from the ‘stumbling blocks,’ a great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas. Just as the son of Eleazar could not tolerate iniquity in the camp of the Lord, this ‘ministry of Phinehas’ will save congregations, and at times even whole nations from the plagues that will be sweeping the earth. They will be moved by the jealousy of the Lord for the purity of His people. They will be sent to save and preserve the work of the Lord, not tear down, as the stumbling blocks do. . . Huge masses of people will be streaming to the Lord, the inflow so great in places that very young Christians will be pastoring large bodies of believers. Arenas and stadiums will overflow nightly as the believers come together to hear the apostles and teachers.

    “. . .Extraordinary miracles will be common while those considered great today will be performed almost without notice by young believers. Angelic appearances will be common to the saints and a visible glory of the Lord will appear upon some for extended periods of time as power flows through them. . . .Those in leadership will be the most humble of all. When anyone presumes leadership without calling, it will be apparent to all. . . .

    “This harvest will be so great that no one will look back at the early Church as a standard; all will be saying that the Lord has certainly saved His best wine for last. The early Church was a first fruits offering; truly this will be a harvest! It was said of the Apostle Paul that he was turning the world upside down; it will be said of the apostles soon to be anointed that they have turned an upside down world right side up. Nations will tremble at the mention of their name. . .” 9

    In 1991, Joyner predicted the same revolution in the Church which he prophesied more recently at the Messiah ’99 Conference:

    “What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord’s faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas.” 10

    If these are indeed the last days as many believe, we know that it is not Christians who will be in power, according to many Scriptures such as:

    Revelation 17:17

    “For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”

    According to some, anyone who does not uphold these various leadership or teachings will be viewed as an enemy of God. That will have to include people who uphold obedience to the Word of God. The “dreaded champions” belief might be an indication of the type of spirituality required to wage war against God’s people and yet believe one was actually working for God.

    John 16:2

    “They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time will cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God a service.”

    Those who claim to belong to Jesus Christ and promote Biblical disobedience are described in verses like:

    2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

    ” And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

    Next Section: The Call D.C. Plus

  34. Carolyn

    When I hear these strange, confusing teachings, the thing that baffles me, is the blindness…as though a veil has been lowered over their eyes so that they cannot see the Truth. What a strange and incomprehensible phenomenon…this blindness. I think of the prophets of Baal, who prophesied so passionately but not according to the Word. I think of Jezabel who defended these prophets with equal passion. And I think of the true prophets of God who were few but saw clearly. What was the difference…? I believe it is summed up in the word allegiance. Who is our allegiance to? The world? People pleasing? or to God? It’s not a hard concept to grasp if you are in the Word. No wonder the strategy of the enemy of God is to discredit the Word of God and to exalt the “word of man” or the “word of the prophet”…….shivery!

  35. Teresa

    @ Ruitjie
    I knew there were Strong connection but I did not know that was what they were teaching as well. I guess they talk to the same deceptive spirit or demon.

    The classic heresy of Gnosticism, which taught that a spiritual elite possessed “hidden knowledge” of the divine realm which placed their personal revelations, spiritual experiences, and private interpretation of Scripture above the ordinary revelation of God’s Word.

    I have heard this so many times; I know you can not find it in the bible “but”

    When God’s word is not enough in our lives there is but one alternative “deception”

    I must go, my dog is missing.

  36. Teresa

    @ Ruitjie; Listen to this interview with Sarah Leslie with (Herescope Discernment ministries) who came out of the New Age movment got in church only to find out that new age teaching was in the church. This is also about the New Apostolic Reformation. Good stuff please listen

    It will tell you where to click to listen to the interview. 1 hour long

  37. Teresa

    Ruitjie and dutchie in this interview around 40 -42 minutes she mentions just exactly what we have been discussing. This interview is really good it covers alot, please listen.

  38. Ruitje

    A quote from Rick Joyner in the article Teresa placed here: “Those in leadership will be the most humble of all. “

    Well, it is clear that those prophets, apostels and leaders aren’t humble at all. Just look at their websites and the way they promote themselves and eachother. And see the pride in how they talk about their supernatural experiences, their higher levels and deeper knowledge. No, those ‘leaders’ aren’t humble at all, they show the nature of the great rebel from the beginning: satan. They want to climb up to heaven and be like God.

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