Mike Bickle and the Kansas City Cult Called IHOP

What is one warning sign of a cult?  Well, I think the most obvious is when a person is kept away from their loved-ones and all forms of communication are severed.  That’s the most familiar one we all know about.

I want to call your attention to a blog called Sadparent’s Weblog.  This lady is suffering through a very hurtful event in her life.  Apparently, her son attends Mike Bickle’s International House of Prayer (IHOP), and as a result, he has been advised to break communication with his mother for at least a year.  This is what Sadparent says:

I’ve lost a son to a thing called IHOP – he told me that “older and wiser council” had met with him. It was, therefore, his decision (after meeting with this ‘older and wiser council’) that he and I should have ZERO communication for “one year..at least”. 

That’s the beginning of a great novel in the making. It’s also the sad, sad truth behind the last 2 years and 3 months of my life. The International House of “Prayer” (and unaccredited university) has been the catalyst in tearing a once loving relationship between mother and son in half. But that’s not what’s caused me to go into such deep mourning.  (Online Source)

All the markers are there.  The warning signs are beaming in all their brilliant resilience… and so many still can’t see them.  This goes to show you truly can’t see when you’re blind.

Would Mike Bickle be ready to admit that his “church” is a cult?  Highly doubtful!  I can’t read his mind, but his behavior of days past has shown me that Bickle isn’t always as blind to his behavior as some might think.  Bickle’s whole church has been built on the prophecies of Bob Jones and Paul Cain, both of which have been discredited as false and dangerous.  (For more on Cain and Jones, please click here.)  Bickle’s behavior has a mafia-like feel to it, and may have gone unchecked were it not for a report written by Pastor Ernie Gruen.  Now, I want to give out a disclaimer by saying that I do not agree with all of Pastor Gruen’s views on doctrine, nor do I endorse the man himself, however, his personal report is shocking and needs to be read by anyone and everyone who is considering attending IHOP.  Therefore, I am posting it based solely upon the merit of the documented abuses, excesses, and false doctrines it contains.  You can access that by clicking here.   As I just stated, this report relays eye-witness and first-hand accounts of abuses from Mike Bickle and leadership such as Bickle and his church strongarming other churches so his church can dissolve them, false prophecies and the damage it has caused, and many other things.  It’s quite a compelling read.  Quite the eye opener if your eyes aren’t opened already.  This report will tell you all you need to know about Mike Bickle, Paul Cain, Bob Jones, and all things that eventually led to the birthing of IHOP.

After the document written by Gruen was released, it was so damaging that Bickle and crew circulated the lie that Gruen had issued a city-wide apology which said he was not only deceived, but was a deceiver himself.  That shows the fruits of Bickle and company.  Gruen had moral failings and never denied such as far as I know, but he vehemently denied that he had ever retracted his report and stood by it until his death.  In fact, the report had so much verifiable documentation, it was hard for Bickle to wiggle out of it.  What else could they do but discredit the messenger?

For further information about Pastor Ernie Gruen, please click here and read a post called, “The Vindication of E. Gruen.”  This is just a small snippet:

So it has been confirmed by the original source that the Infamous Ernie Gruen Report was never apologized for. And that whoever is keeping up Mike Bickle’s wikipedia page is either lying, or was lied to. There is no city-wide letter that Ernie Gruen wrote apologizing for the letter. None has ever turned up to substantiate the claim.

I.H.O.P is guilty until proven innocent.

To SadParent I want to say, please hang in there.  Our thoughts are with you.

41 thoughts on “Mike Bickle and the Kansas City Cult Called IHOP

  1. James Jones

    Dear sad parent, I was 45 years old when I took a trimester at IHOP in 03 by the grace of God He led me and my wife away from that movement but it took about a year for me to realize it was a cult, and two years for me to see the whole prophetic, Apostolic, signs and wonders thing for what it is, DECEPTION.
    I know exactly what you are saying about contemplative prayer being like T.M.
    But it doesn’t stop there, there is so much new age and Catholic mysticism mixed into the pot that it is one big hodge-podge of ecclesiastical witches brew.
    In a prophetic class that was taught by Kirk Bennett one of our assignments was to take a scripture and repeat it over and over for two hours straight, praying it, repeating it until we got a revelation, this is nothing but a mantra, repetitious prayer, something we are not supposed to be part of. at the time I thought something was wrong with me because I never got anything (but tired) unless it was by my imagination, but later I was pleased to know that I was being protected, that’s why it wasn’t working. I was a sincere man trying to answer what I thought was the call of God on my life and at the time I new very little about the prophetic movement, but I did see a power that I thought had to be God And how could twenty four hour seven day a week prayer and worship not be of God? Boy did I get an education. Your right about this being part of the great apostasy but it isn’t limited to just IHOP but you are probably well aware of it. My wife and I actually moved down right behind IHOP in 04 from Wisconsin, thinking we were going to be part of that movement, but the Lord said no, but because of our close proximity, and boarding a IHOP student with us for a year, we learned some of the idiosyncrasies and things that they would not want others knowing, we even took in a Chinese women in for two weeks who was a wreck after being part of IHOP for two years. IHOP staff was very uncomfortable her staying with us, they didn’t want threir image tarnished in the neighborhood, they did all they could to try and wisk her away before we found out to much.
    To much to tell, but the fruit is very bad. As for your son, I know that you are praying, my wife and I will as well. I’m thinking of the scripture in 2Tim.2:24-26 zeroing in on part of verse 25-26 “if God perhaps will grant your son repentance so that he may come to his senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.”
    As I said the Lord led us out and we will be praying He will lead your son out, and that he will be better for the experience, as some one who can have a strong voice in warning others from such madness, perhaps because of my age young people don’t want to listen to me, but they may someone your son’s age.
    Keeping sounding the alarm perhaps some will listen.

    1. Chrystal Post author


      You may be surprised at the people who would listen to you. No need to give your age unless your comfortable doing it…just continue to speak out like you are doing. I know from experience that it does make a difference. And, even if no one listens, the truth must be proclaimed. Amen? Amen!

  2. mkayla

    I know that sadparent appreciates the prayer and encouragement. She has taken her blog down.

    It is so important for those with experience who have been there, done that, and come out of the deception to keep speaking the truth. Others need to hear it.

    Blessings all.:)

  3. Tez

    I am also a parent who has been cut off from my child for almost six years. This has ripped my family apart and caused one, to denounce the faith they once professed in Christ.

    So much destruction, heartache, and pain. And they do it all, while naming the name of Christ.

    The light of God’s word needs to shine and expose the darkness of such things. Bless all of you who take a stand to expose it.

  4. James Jones

    Hi Chrystal, I already have a post on this blog, but if you think it would be appropriate here is another testimony of a personal experience with IHOP.
    A women named Ling.
    My wife and I lived behind IHOP from 04-06 we moved to that location with the intent of taking classes and attend the many teachings that IHOP offered. The year prior I had taken time off to be away from my wife and church home to attend a trimester at the Forerunner school of ministry, that’s what there school was called at that time, I had experienced a lot of new things I was getting out of the box so I thought, that’s why we decided to move to K.C. we felt the Lord was directing us to move for the education and to answer the call to ministry. Over the next two years we got an education alright.
    After some rather supernatural events we found and rented a really nice apartment right next to the Hurn Hut apartment complex that IHOP owns, I could walk to IHOP in six min. But after we were settled in and just before I was to register for classes I heard the Lord say it is not IHOP. Long story short we didn’t enroll for classes, but went to the prayer room often, had people stay with us when they were having conferences, and attended a few conferences along with them, but little by little our eyes were being opened to the false teachings of dominionism, (Joel’s army) a global revival which is supposed to go through out the earth, (which you cannot back with scripture,) the Prophets and Apostle’s false movement, and that the signs and wonders we were seeing were not of God.
    And something that was really starting to trouble me was the commanding the Holy Spirit to do ones bidding, especially by the late Jill Austin, but many others.
    We were also coming out of the Full Gospel Baptist Association, And the false teaching’s that are in that movement. So we were in a major transition when we met miss Ling.
    I had went out for a walk and next door I seen this oriental women sitting on the neighbors lawn with her head bowed as if she was praying, I didn’t think to much of it many people from IHOP are in that area so seeing someone praying or vibrating (twitching) or jerking wasn’t a surprise. except that I never seen her before and I new she didn’t live there, when I came back about an hour later she was still there and she was crying really hard, I asked her if I could help her at first she said no,. I left her and went into my house and got her some bottled water because it was very hot out, after I gave it to her , I found out that she was a student at IHOP we talked for a while and she opened up and told me she was waiting for Mike Bickle to drive by ,she needed to talk to him and plead with him not to send her back to Taiwan with out a certificate of completion for taking classes at the school for two years, she said she could not go back with out that because she would lose face. I guess in that culture that’s a major disgrace. It turned out that she was ordered to stay with one of IHOP’s elders a couple who at one time were Pastors and now devoted there time to IHOP she said she felt trapped and all they wanted to do was get rid of her and she just couldn’t go back. I asked her where she was going to stay she said she would stay out side she wasn’t going to go back to that couple. I talked to my wife and she agreed that we could not let her do that and we would take her in for a time to get to the bottom of things. When we took her to pick up her things at this other couples home they were very upset that we complete strangers and not involved with IHOP were getting involved, they did every thing from sweet talk us to warn us that she was a very troubled women and we would be at risk, I asked them why she wasn’t allowed to see Mike, they said he is to busy for this kind of thing and couldn’t be troubled. This kind of thing, a human life! What is ministry supposed to be about?. See the elitist theocracy behind that statement.
    We took her in for two weeks, the first thing we felt we had to do was get her to eat, she looked anorexic and it turned out that it was because of all the fasting she was doing. IHOP encourages fasting, check out there book store if you want proof.
    She could hardly eat more than a few bites of food, and kept saying that she had to keep fasting until her problems were resolved, she was under demonic influence which comes with the territory of a cult, that is why they couldn’t do anything for her, as it turned out they tried deliverance but had no results.
    No wonder; does Satan cast out Satan?. I know that sounds strong but this is a very dangerous movement and the power behind it are not of the Holy Spirit, but an unholy spirit, and the sooner people understand this is reality, the better.
    It turned out that they threatened her that if she came on the grounds of IHOP property they would have her arrested and deported for violation of her students visa as she was no longer a student. (whether this was true or not I don’t know but she believed it.)
    She was desperate for her side of the story to be heard by Mike, so I said I would go with her to see Mikes wife who had a realty business on campus, I went with her and I asked the secretary if I could see Mrs. Bickle when she came out I asked if we could have a few min. of her time, she was very nice and heard the whole story from Ms. Ling and said she would help in any way she could and would talk to Mike so that this could be resolved she took my phone number and said we would be contacted.
    Finally after several days we got the phone call, they wanted Ms. Ling to go to a conference with several of the school administrators as Mike had nothing to do with school policy he would not be present. She wanted no part of that she was afraid of these people. There again had been threats as I already mentioned.
    Now I never learned the whole story but here is what I know.
    Ms. Ling had been a successful business women, she was in T.V. I know this is true because she showed us the T.V shows with her moderating that she had on tape. She had a born again experience and was a young baby believer, At a conference in Thailand Mike told of the school, IHOP, I is for International, she believed it, this was a major move for her against her parents wishes they were Buddhist and they could not see her sacrifice her career for Christianity, that’s why to go back in disgrace was beyond her comprehension. I was afraid for her, she said she would rather be dead than go back with out face.
    Also I thought it irreprehensible the way a foreigner who’s cultural back ground is so different would be treated like this, and this from a school who boosts of there international status. (they should know how to bridge the cultural barriers) was this Christian love. No matter what the problem they could of given her a paper that said she was at the school for two years, (that was not a lie), its not like its an accredit school for Pete’s sake.

    I also seen that after two years all she new of the bible was the book of Joel, and that as taught by Mike.
    This I could not fathom zero growth in the Lord, you mean to tell me for two years none of her instructors or counselors could see she was a baby believer? How could some one fall threw the cracks? This is supposed to be a Spirit filled cutting edge movement. The scripture’s give us examples of demonized folk getting set free how much more a women who wanted to come to America and learn about Jesus,
    You mean to tell me in a so Called Christian environment where Ms. Ling was at, twenty four seven for two years, (she lived on campus) she would have zero growth, and in fact because of the whole experience go back home full of demons worse off then when she came?

    This is beyond my comprehension that Christianity if its true would fail anyone. Well true Christianity won’t. But this is just one tragic example, I have met many, many, people who had sacrificed and moved to join IHOP many simian’s (older folks ministry of IHOP)
    Who experienced nothing but hurt and disillusionment. But praise the Lord I know that in the long run they are better off, that they weren’t assimilated into the deception.
    This is all fruit people or lack of it, hundreds of examples truly.

    Some might say but this is for higher education, there not responsible for a baby Christian. I beg to differ they are for the most part a youth movement, many kids go there who are very young in the Lord, and some are not in the Lord at all but go there because of conferences and other youth outreaches it’s the fun thing to do, some go there to meet girls. We had a student stay with us for a year and he told us that.
    In IHOP’s arrogance they believe that there is so much anointing and anointed teaching’s going on that people just have to grow. (that’s my opinion)
    As for Ms. Ling because of some Chinese friends they made arrangements for her to go to California for some Christian help and deliverance.
    I felt really bad that all we could do is give her a home for a couple weeks and try to show her love. As I said we were in a major transition trying to figure out for ourselves what was authentic Christianity, all we had left was our own testimony and our personal walk with the Lord, which is enough, but He had to take us into a wilderness time to get Babylon out of us, (false teaching).
    I hope this is of benefit to someone.
    Jim J.

    1. Chrystal Post author

      God bless you, Jim. Thank you for sharing your story. I value your input on this disastrous move currently going on in Kansas City.

  5. ExPreacherMan


    Good expose’.

    Are you familiar with a group with a similar name, (OHOP), Orlando House Of Prayer? Or a worship singer or band with a person, Sean Blockley, who might be loosely (or ignorantly) associated with OHOP?

    In Jesus Christ eternally,


  6. Frank

    I was a member of the original church in grandview and olathe back from 83 through 90. it has taken me many years to sort out the truth. the most dangerous teachings are those that mix truth with a lie. i have no question why jim jones’ followers drank the coolaide that day. I was suckered in to a lie too. we should pray every day for those decieved by the lie – wherever it is being taught. this movement is very dangerous – i know first hand.

    1. truthspeaker

      Frank, were you there when they went into the Vineyard? I just saw a onething promo video where Mike Bickle is talking about “Doing the stuff”….. I thought that’s sooooo Vineyard, did they ever really leave it?

    2. Frank

      yes, i was at “metro vineyard” in KC. I was a member when we joined…. and I was there when we were asked to leave. and yes, they did really leave it… by force. It was a long time ago…. but I believe the break had to do with the prophets that metro was promoting. but like I said… that was long ago.

  7. Chad Harvey

    Thank you so much for this insight into what I consider to be one of the most dangerous if not the most dangerous movement masquerading around under the guise of Christianity today! I was part of a movement similar to IHOP and it sent me into a real period of delusion and discouragement in which I just about walked away from faith altogether. Sadly, we are part of the few that have come out of this and found a renewed foundation in Chirst. That is why it is ever so critical that we speak out and save those who are subjecting themselves to the dangers that this movement brings- both emotionally and spiritually!

  8. Frank

    from my perspective, the most dangerous aspect of the whole thing is the “personal prophet”. not the bob jones or paul cain (who are scary in their own right). but the personal prophet can and does the most damage of all. this is the person in infiltrates the prayer groups with personal words of knowledge…. and hears direct words from God about you. wow. If this were true it would be awesome. but in reality, this is such a destructive force. here you had people desperately trying to hear directly from God and giving others direction in their lives. just think about it. God is speaking directly to you through someone else. Unfortunately, it is one of the most psychologically destructive forces I’ve ever seen. people became in total bondage to these false words of knowledge.

    It pains me to write about these things. I know I was truly seeking God when I was involved in these activities. I know others involved in the movement over the years were sincere in their desire to seek Him. Unfortunately, for me, it took many years of being away for me to trust and believe in others again. I don’t know that I ever lost faith in God…. but I sure lost faith in others.

    Here is a brief synopsis of what I found in an environment of “personal prophecy”. 1. Manipulation/Power – the “prophet” is in an immediate position of power; the subject is submissive….for the prophet is hearing directly from God! 2. Cliques/hierarchical systems – there will be those who are “in” and those that our “out”. those that are “in” are invited to special meetings and included in small groups. those that are “out” are constantly trying to mimic those that are “in” to become like them. 3. Judgemental spirit. you either have to bark, shake, scream, pass-out, etc. to be seen as spiritual. 4. competition – you are constantly struggling internally to have the gifts that others are exhibiting. 5. Bondage – you are told that you have to be careful with the personal prophecies and only “accept” what you believe to be true. OMG!!!! so here you are… in a prayer group with others…. and someone gives you a personal prophecy – in front of others. It may be a wonderful prophecy about your future… or it may be a scathing rebuke… or it may have hidden innuendo that everyone takes differently. In any case, you are now subject to the prophecy… in total bondage to it. I guarantee (psychologically) you will remember those words for the rest of your life…

    You dont think about these things until you get away from it. it all happens without you thinking about it. You truly desire to know God. but the way to get there (in this movement) is through being like others… and showing “spiritual gifts” manifested in front of others.

    I can go on and on. bottom line for me. yes, there are lots of whack jobs involved. yes, there are lots of smart sincere people involved. but I will never again be involved with this type of movement. It destroys lives.

    1. mkayla

      I can relate to this. I was one of them, gave words, received words and found myself, along with others, needing words. You get to the point you can’t wiggle without one. And then the “breakthrough” always in bondage to something, some unseen force not realizing the need to break through is from the bondage brought on by the lying false prophecies.

      Trust? Ha. I came out of this a little over a year ago. I was in a healing room ministry and on the prophetic team at a Vineyard church. It’s all about the gift and what you can accomplish. Without it, you are nothing. I still struggle with many things and in reading Frank’s words I realize just how much damage is still with me. I was only involved for a few years, so the damage does not take long. I hear stories of others who were involved for many years, decades and I can’t imagine what it’s done to them. But, God is faithful to heal, to deliver us from evil and to set our hearts and minds right again. He forgives and restores our sanity.

      This is why I put up a blog – to show the full out lies behind the healing room teachings, the word of faith, and the false prophetic. It is all so dangerous and the more I think on it, the more I read and ponder things the more I see just how Jesus is left out of so much of what is being said and taught. Sure, they use His name, but all that He came to do, all that He is gets left out. Watch, read and listen to these people at IHOP and the Call, Joyner, John Paul Jackson, Bill Johnson, their prophets, etc and you will not see a connection to Jesus Christ. It is all about the person or their experiences and old testament ways and o.t. scripture references.

      I know there are people involved with these that don’t see, some can’t, some don’t want to for whatever reason. People really need to start listening to those who have come out of them. So many want to write it off as only a “bad experience”. It is such a shame that they cannot hear the truth coming from us. It is worth speaking the truth, even if only one person hears it. That one person is worth the effort, just as Jesus went after the one that was lost, so should we.

      I am amazed at the “convergence” happening between these false ministries. Who would have thought to see anti-christ coming right out of what many perceive to be “the church”?

      I am at m’kayla’s korner

  9. anon

    There’s a video on YouTube from December 7 2009 (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT7yNZ93lcE) where Mike Bickle welcomed John Arnott (of Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship) and Bill Johnson (of Bethel Church Redding) onto the platform at IHOP. Those two men are responsible for a lot of the heresy in the church today, and the fact that Bickle has endorsed them rings very big alarm bells. I’d suggest avoiding all three.

  10. anon

    Chrystal, if you want to fix the link in my first post that’s obviously fine, in which case just delete the second one.

  11. James Jones

    Hi Crystal
    wolves among the sheep asked me if he could post my testimony I tried to contact him but it seems I am having trouble with my server. He may post it.

  12. PABLO

    I’ve been getting out of bed and coming down to the lounge at 05:30 in the morning on a regular basis since March this year, to watch and participate in the IHOP prayer room session. Mike Bickle’s coherent encouragement toward a life of enjoyable prayer has been the most compelling thing about 2009 for me. I am a worship leader at my church and I have been stretched, inspired and fed by the Lord through my commitment to rising early for devotionals and through the richness of the lives of the IHOP leaders and intercessors on display. God’s Word truly indwells them richly.

    I’m obviously rather horrified to read the posts above about the IHOP underbelly. because of the way I learn, it would be useful if a number of you posted responses to the following questions:

    1. Do you think IHOP started in the Spirit and, if so, could it be restored through a process of repentance by its leadership and a putting in place of checks and balances to stave off further error?

    2. What would you advise Misty Edwards to do about her ministry at IHOP?

    3. What would you advise Mike Bickle to do, as the head of IHOP?

    4. Do you think the Anna / Simeon calling is a revelation of God and approved by Him for those who would chose “the greater part”?

    I really would appreciate hearing from those close to IHOP who have experienced the ministry. I’m an all-or-nothing kind of chap and my hunger for reality and a truer, closer walk has led me to IHOP. Of course, I’ll be praying about these posts and seeking God’s heart on the matter. I just know that He speaks through His people as well.


    1. James Jones

      Hi Pablo
      If you have been going to the prayer room since March you probably have heard the 12 disc, C.D set of how IHOP got started.
      The K.C Prophets are a big factor. Bob Jones was caught having women disrobe in front of him while he prophesied over them.
      Paul Cain was exposed for Alcoholism and homo sexuality that came out when I lived right next door to him in I believe it was 06.
      Are these men of God?
      It turned out that this was a life long sin pattern with Paul Cain, boy was that hushed up at the IHOP camp.
      What does Christ and Beliel have in common?
      This is just a small example, do your research it may be painful at times it was for me, but all the warning’s in scripture about last days deception are coming forth now.
      We are admonished in the Word to study to show our selves approved, its vital, what doctrines are we being fed, is it meat sacrificed to idols? (Meat of the word interpreted according to a teachers idol and then feeding it to the sheep.)
      Remember a little leaven goes through the whole lump. 1Cor.5:6 Gal.5:9
      Leaven in the word represents corruption. The parable of the Leaven (Luke 13)is not about the gospel spreading all over the earth, if it is it’s the only reference that leaven is good in all of scripture. No Jesus was saying that the Kingdom of God will be corrupted, this isn’t talking about heaven. The kingdom of God is with in us. Luke 17:21
      Then in 2Thess.2:3-4 is talking about Christians, being corrupted, deceived, falling away.
      The son of perdition sitting in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.
      This is a spirit! We are the temple of God. 1Cor.3:16 1Cor.6:19 Eph.2:21-22
      God’s spirit will never dwell again in a building built by man.
      2 Thess.2 is a warning of what will take place before our Lords return, a great falling away from the truth, an Apostasy, not a great world wide revival. I heard Mike say and I’m sure you have too, that the Lord told him a billion souls are going to get saved through IHOPs movement. It would be nice I believed it, I wanted to believe it but I kept knocking my head against scripture and kicking against the pricks. I had to make a choice either the Holy Spirit could lead me in all truth, or I might as well leave my bible at home and listen to the teachers, and have my ears tickled.
      Pablo you need no man teach you, ask of God, search things out, walk through the book store at IHOP look at all the Authors that are recommended reading. The Catholic mystics, there are many by new age authors. Foster, Nouwen, many others.
      I had a friend that went there for one conference he bought a bunch of books from IHOP and now he is in a Catholic seminary going to be a priest. This isn’t a good thing this is tragic. The blood of thousands of Martyrs are crying out against such mix.
      James J.

    2. Frank

      Pablo, all I can tell you is what I experienced. take it as input and find your own truth….

      In reading your post, I could have written exactly the same words back in the mid 80’s when I joined the movement. as well as 2000 other people could have also. We were an on-fire movement. It all fell apart for all the reasons I stated above. It was a total mess. none of those that I knew back then have continued with the movement. most all have a similar story to mine to tell….

      I dont know much about IHOP specifically. I can only speak to the movement where IHOP was birthed.

      here are my thoughts to your questions:

      1. from what I can see, IHOP is following the same culture, principles and teachings that metro followed (by watching you tube etc.). After all the problems metro had, I heard and saw many repentant sermons from the metro leadership saying how things would change in the future…. it doesnt look to me like they have changed at all. because of this, I do not believe anything will change in the future.

      2. I dont know anything about misty. from the music i’ve heard, I’m sure she is a sincere believer with a great talent. but I would tell her the same thing I would tell anyone else. leave. find a traditional bible believing church.

      3. mike has heard all the comments. he is doing what he believes is right. he does it with a tenacity and energy that draws you in. you need to decide if it is what you believe. I made my decision….

      4. I dont know anything about this revelation. but in general, i would stay away from any prophesy this movement promotes. dont walk….. run.

      after many years of healing I now understand (for me) what matters. I dont need the “supernatural” evidence of God. God is love. I see Him everyday in my life and in those around me. May sound corny…. but its where I landed. Love and forgiveness are all the miracle I need.

      I’m not concerned for you Pablo. If the worship is blessing you then so be it. Just watch out for the dark side…. trust your instincts.

      take care.

    3. truthspeaker

      Pablo, I watched the One Thing promo video with Mike Bickle and Misty Edwards. It was called “doing the stuff”. here’s the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_hwalp1WxY

      I have to say she looked like she was in a trance and all she did was parrot Bickle. I’ve listened to her lead “worship” and repeat the same thing over and over and over and over, ad nauseam. Not an ounce of anointing on the music, but they keep grinding it. If you think that’s a ministry, then ok. Me personally, I think she’s sadly mind controlled.

      I agree with Frank, this is not a healthy ministry …. run….. do not walk !

  13. truthspeaker

    Jim I totally concur with all that you said above to Pablo. Those CD’s are called “Encountering Jesus” and can be listened to for free on the internet….. I listened to all 12 torturous hours! Bickle glosses over all the bad stuff, the problems etc!! But it gives you a really good understanding of how IHOP was based on BOB JONES’ WORDS to Bickle. If there were no Bob Jones, there would be NO IHOP.

    And one more thing….. Mike Bickle calls these two sexual perverts his SPIRITUAL FATHERS! That pretty much sums it up!!

    1. Frank

      I was there. I was totally suckered in. to my shame. it was interesting back then… we all anticipated the arrival of the prophets…. but then when they spoke…. you really couldnt understand a word they said…. but then mike would get up on stage and interpret what he heard… sometimes I just scratched my head how he got what he got from what I heard….

      there is another one I havent heard you all mention john paul jackson (I think that is right… it was a long time ago)

    2. Chrystal Post author

      John Paul Jackson is what I like to call “one of Mike Bickle’s henchmen.” He would go into churches and prophesy that the church would come under the authority of Kansas City Fellowship or Ichabod would be written over the door. See the document written by Ernest Gruen for more information.

      Bless you, Frank.

  14. mkayla

    John Paul Jackson – Streams Ministries and Bridge Churches is just as dangerous as IHOP. I took a few of his very expensive courses, hearing the voice of God and 2 of his dreams and visions courses. I was very messed up from taking in the teaching and the impartation that was done. All of these guys coming out of Toronto seem to be gaining in intensity when they should be publically kicked out of the “church” and exposed for their lies.

    Thanks again for all you do here.:)

  15. mkayla

    Truthspeaker, I watched that video the other day when you sent me the link. I thought the same thing about Misty. She looks and acts really off. I thought the same about Mike, but it was more apparent in Misty. What a waste of a life. God help them.

  16. Rhology

    My wife had a friend for several years and they got along quite well. Then came IHOP, our friend really seemed to jump off a bit into the deep end into it.
    At the same time, my wife and I were un-becoming charismatic, and my wife and her friend had discussions about that. I guess a few of them turned into near arguments, but they weren’t anything close to screaming or anything.
    Anyway, one day after a few of such convos, our friend called her and told her that they couldn’t be friends anymore, b/c my wife was basically a negative influence and needed separation.

    Lesson learned. I don’t know if I’d call IHOP a cult, but this kind of behavior is extremely cultIC and the organisation is certainly skirting right along the edge of being a cult. May the Lord have mercy on all involved.

  17. smilesback

    Thank you, all, for your insights and for being willing to speak out. IHOP has influenced many of us by way of friends and family –and causing division. I have been involved also with churches that come under its influence and/or similar belief system and have many ridiculous stories I could tell.

    One time, during a “revival” meeting involving several churches in the area, one of the church leaders pointed me out of the crowd, and waving his hand back and forth (and smiling), publicly “prophesied” to me that I needed to get right with the Lord. I was aghast. I believed my heart and life and mind were totally right before the Lord as I was daily abiding in Him, His Word, evangelizing, etc., and clean of all known sin. It was awful. I wanted to crumble. But I said, “Oh Lord, is this of You?” The Lord, so kind and gracious, immediately said, “This is not of Me. But just stand there and take it.” So I calmly endured the five or so minutes of tongue-lashing, and felt my heart cupped in my Savior’s loving and mighty hand. Afterward, I just talked and loved on people like I always did, like nothing had happened. But it’s true, we never forget these types of “prophecies” given over us… though the Lord does heal us all up from the pain of it.

    You know why I think this leader picked on me? A few weeks before, when he came to speak at our church, he used a Scripture verse out of context to support a false doctrine of his. After the meeting, I privately approached him about it. He tried to argue, but I just said we’d just have to disagree about it then. I did not know at the time that he was so angered (or embarrassed), but I found out the hard way later, didn’t I?

    I could go on about a lot of episodes… but one was when I taught at a big Christian school affiliated with a large charismatic church. They had an award they’d give out every year to the teacher who was “Most Spiritual”. What a sad laugh! As if we can judge that! (I didn’t stay there long, deciding I’d rather go back to teaching in the public school.)

    Another time, my mom and I went to a “revival” at that church, and there were people being “slain” all over the place and of course, lots of laughter. Some could maybe want to explain much of this stuff as being a result of some kind of mass hypnosis. However, some (or most) of it had to have been from a supernatural source. I’ve had to believe that based on many things, but this is the one that sticks out for me:

    The speaker, a handsome young man, gets up and starts speaking. Intermittently, he shoots at people –with his finger– and they jerk like they’ve really been shot, and some convulse violently and fall. The most vivid in my mind was when he “shot” toward the camera man (who was way up in the balcony of this very large church), saying, “And you, Mr. Cameraman, take this!” The guy convulsed and fell backwards. It was way too dramatic to have been anything but a strong supernatural force that hit him. Then the speaker told him to come down to the front to get prayed over, and on his way down, this cameraman got shot by the speaker over and over, would get back up, and it’d happen again. And again, and again, until everyone was dying of laughter and he’d finally made it down to the front. I was not laughing however. I was spooked. I turned to my mom and said, “This is not of the Lord.” And she agreed.

    James, I think it is wonderful that you helped that Taiwanese woman as you and your wife did. You did what you could and I’m sure the Lord will reward such efforts. I grew up overseas also, and such treatment toward someone of another culture is barbaric! Absolutely appalling! I just cried reading that post of yours.

    Frank, I agree about the manipulation, competition, etc. from those lording it over others and giving their silly false prophecies. I have friends that have ordered their lives differently by such nonsense given by just any old person pretending to be God’s prophet. It’s sad.

    M’kayla and Truthspeaker, I really appreciate both of your websites too. I often read there.

    May we all keep abiding in and contending for The Truth. For knowing it is what sets us FREE! Free from deception as well as other sin.

    Love to all of you,
    In Christ Jesus,

    1. myalteredart

      Thanks for your imput Rachel. Do you, or anyone else, remember Todd Bentley’s worship leader, Heather Clark did the tribal dance and at the end she pointed her fingers like a gun and shot at the audience? It was very weird and it looked like a trance dance….

      Here’s the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52ACWzbuMBU

    2. Chrystal Post author

      Hi myalteredart,

      Thank you for the link. I remember Heather Clark, and the dance she was doing was a trance dance. Ekstasis worship is what they call it.

    3. AmateurTheologian

      Smilesback / Rachel,

      I wanted to respond to your comment above.

      I’ve been trying to work out for many years if some of the “manifestations” like you describe above are demonic in origin, and I still haven’t reached a conclusion.

      I know a fair bit about psychology, and you should never underestimate the power of the subconcious mind. In many revival meetings, people are hypnotised by a long period of repetitve worship music and a sermon from a gifted orator who will use hypnotic techniques (often accidentally discovered) in their talk. They end up in a highly suggestible state and are convinced that, when the preacher touches them (or points at them), the Holy Spirit will descend on them in power. The subconcious then generates all sorts of strange bodily reactions (based on learned behavior) whilst the person genuinely has a spiritual experience.

      Incidentally. the catharsis that this brings can have genuine benefits, but it’s utterly deceptive to suggest that it’s anything to do with the power of God. It can also be extremely dangerous, addictive and destructive. I’m not promoting or condoning it in any way (quite the opposite), but it explains why many people who are involved in ths sort of thing actually lead well-balanced lives. It’s no different to going to a football or baseball match or the theatre – it provides an opportunity for emotional expression, which we all need.

      By way of comparison, someone could be hypnotised to believe that they will get an electric shock when a finger is pointed at them, and they would behave in a similar manner to what you describe.

      Likewise, peer pressure and crowd dynamics are also extremely powerful forces. You see this when, for example, Benny Hinn makes whole sections of a congregation fall over.

      Having said that, some of the more bizarre things (Stacey Campbell’s head shaking at Lakeland, for example) do seem to defy rational explanation. Certainly there is evidence that demons can be imparted by laying on of hands, and comparisons have been made between pentecostal manifestations and eastern occult religious practices. But conversely, I’ve also see self-improvement “gurus” produce all sorts of strange phenomena in their followers.

      To conclude, I simply don’t have all the answers. Whilst I am a moderate/biblical charismatic (and completely condemn heresy, deception, and false teachers, of which there are many), and do believe in the supernatural, I’m also very reluctant to take the extremist position of seeing demons everywhere. Sometimes I think we risk adopting the views of the “charismaniacs” without us realising it.

  18. smilesback

    Actually, a few weeks ago, I did happen to come across the video of Heather’s dance, but just watched about the first minute. Tonight however, I viewed the whole thing, and I see what you mean about how she pretended to shoot several times. That, most certainly, is what gives it away that it couldn’t be of the Lord. She was definitely mimicking a gun shooting, throwing her head back each time. Why would the Lord’s Holy Spirit have someone filled with Him mimic a violent act?

    I do believe we can dance before the Lord. I do also believe in being careful about judging others’ motives or way of dancing (as various ways could stem from cultural upbringing, and culture itself is not necessarily evil), and energy and zeal can differ also. I don’t want to be judged by God like Michal was judged for despising King David when he danced.

    Sometimes when I’ve seen people dance, they seem to be very sensuous and have immodest attire. However, I consider that Heather’s clothing was modest for dancing, and I don’t think she was doing any purposeful sensual moves.

    However, the objection I have with that dance is the “shooting” –yes, as well as just where it was done. –On a platform with Todd Bentley and the fact that I believe that “revival” to have been full of counterfeit spirits. So I add it all together…


  19. AmateurTheologian

    In response to myalteredart, smilesback, and Chrystal:

    There’s some discussions on Heather Clark’s dance at Lakeland on Miriam’s blog at http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/heather-clark-trance-dance-at-the-lakeland-outpouring/ – Heather is one of the commentors – see comment 42 in particular.

    I’m sure she also responded on YouTube somewhere, but I think the comments have been deleted.

    I wouldn’t really call what she did a “trance dance” and it’s not the same as “Ekstasis worship” which is something weird promoted by Patricia King.

    I wasn’t sure about Heather’s dance, but reading her explanations I don’t think there’s anything sinister to be worried about. Do remember that dance is not something that most churchgoers are familiar with and they may not understand it.

    Bringing the subject back to IHOP, I see Heather Clark in the same way I do Misty Edwards – I think they both have genuine hearts for the Lord and aren’t heretics in themselves, but are involved with some stuff which is very questionable.

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