Dutch Sheets and Rick Pino: Seducing Spirits and Heresy

In the video below, listen as Dutch Sheets tells of a vision he says he has where Jesus brings him a birthday cake, and tells him just to party and enjoy Him.  Afterwards, Rick Pino leads the congregation in a song called, “Mess Us Up in Your Presence, Oh God.”  When the music starts, watch the influence it has on the people who are present.

These men are clouds without water.  There is no truth found in their doctrine.  Not once in this video do you hear Sheets teach or quote God’s Word, it’s all extra-biblical nonsense.  Instead of asking for God to mess us up, why don’t we ask Him to lead us into all truth?  Why don’t we ask Him to help us grow in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.  If we do that, it pleases Him.  This spectacle in the below video is completely shameful.

Thank you to A Little Leaven for posting this video.

42 thoughts on “Dutch Sheets and Rick Pino: Seducing Spirits and Heresy

  1. HeartCry

    As a worship leader myself for a number of years, I have to say that this type of thing brings me to tears. It would be no different if they had stuck a Status Quo and started head banging to it, except maybe the content would be a little more substantial!

    I have no problem accepting many types of music styles in praising the name of our Lord Jesus, but if what we sing does not lead us into reverent fear, and wholehearted thankfulness for what He has done for us, then what use is it at all?

    Yes I believe the fruit of the Spirit gives us fullness of joy because His word tells me so, but it is joy in Him and through Him, and because of what He has done for us. It is not us being called to behave like a bunch of screaming teenagers with “I love Jesus” tee-shirts on.

    Forgive us Lord for what we have let our intended praise and thanksgiving become.

  2. Chrystal Post author

    But the question is, total surrender to what? This isn’t of God, so it begs to question what the source of this is.

    The modern church needs to have experiences like this in order to feel validated as a christian. An ongoing problem is that people are not being taught God’s Word, and they have no clue who God the Father is. When they get saved, they haven’t a personal knowledge of Him, and they trail off into experiential episodes like this in order to stay “interested” and refreshed. God’s Word, and obedience to Him is not enough for them. They must have a tingle of the flesh to keep going, which Satan is always willing to provide.

    Does God really mess people up like this? If so, give me chapter and verse for it.

  3. HeartCry

    Do you guys remember the story of the kings clothes?

    Sadly I believe it is utterly true that many, many people claiming to be a Christian, cleave strongly to those who tell them what they want to hear. I don’t think this would be in dispute from anyone here, especially considering that we have scripture telling us so:

    “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;” 2 Tim 4:3

    The reason I am saying this, is that from my experience as a worship leader, I am fully aware that there are many who long to be led anywhere you desire to lead them, especially if it is a place they have never been to before. Because of this truth, I accept the task of this ministry with fear and trembling, just as I believe any preacher should too, because you become personally responsible before God for the wellbeing of those being called by His name.

    There is no doubt at all in my mind that God does “inhabit” the praises of His people as stated in Psalm 22:3, but those praises must come from a sound mind and a right motive to be valid. When we offer praises from this perspective they are soberly and willingly volunteered of our own accord.

    In Galatians chapter 5, one of the works of the flesh is “revellings” translated from the Greek “Komos”, which according to the Greek Lexicon is described as follows:

    1. a revel, carousal

    – a nocturnal and riotous procession of half drunken and frolicsome fellows who after supper parade through the streets with torches and music in honour of Bacchus or some other deity, and sing and play before houses of male and female friends; hence used generally of feasts and drinking parties that are protracted till late at night and indulge in revelry.

    Whereas the same chapter goes on to describe a fruit of the Spirit as “temperance” or “self-control”, translated from the original word “Egkrateia”. Which again according to the Greek Lexicon is defined:

    1. self-control (the virtue of one who masters his desires and passions, especially his sensual appetites) .

    Just bearing this portion of scripture alone as a guideline, the question must be begged when watching the antics we are talking about: Is this from the flesh or the Spirit of God?

    If you are a person standing on the fact that there are high profile Christians, who you respect and admire greatly, all telling you that without doubt this is from God. And you are prepared to follow them as opposed to what the Word of God reveals to you as the truth, then you are sincerely in danger of being in the same state of nakedness and shamefulness as they.

    What’s more, if you are a preacher, pastor, worship leader, or whatever else, with some sort of hold on those called by His name. And you refuse to heed the Word of God in order to follow the gathering crowd of false prophets, then let these words sink in deep into your spirit:

    “Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!” says the Lord.
    Therefore thus says the Lord God of Israel against the shepherds who feed My people: “You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings,” says the Lord.” Jeremiah 23:1-2

  4. Veronica

    Scripture is full of marvelous dealings of our precious Father towards whom He has called. The flesh must be put under submission to the Holy Spirit and the word of God. That does mess us up sometimes doesnt it? Imagine they are telling God to mess up their agendas and desires so that His plan and purpose for their life in Him will come into fruition. If that is not submission to God then we need to look at our own hearts. I have learnt very early in my christian walk not to touch Gods anointed and make judgment. By the way the Holy Spirit is quite capable in teaching the ways of God to young believers. Yes many have been misled but God is n control and will bring them to where He wants them. He says He will never leave us nor forsake us and will bring them through.

  5. Chrystal Post author

    Hi Veronica.

    When God said, “Touch not mine anointed,” He was talking about Israel. Read that whole passage in context.

    Do you realize that it sounds like you are saying, “Yes, they’ve been misled, but don’t judge…God will bring them where He wants them to be, He’ll bring them through.”

    If we allow false doctrine to enter the church unchecked and do nothing to stop it, it is tantamount to watching a child play in rush-hour traffic and instead of rushing in to save them, we say…”God will save them.”

    We were told to exhort and rebuke with all longsuffering and doctrine because the result of that is people will be sound in the faith. Just letting error go under the premise that we are not to judge swings the doors open wide for heresy to enter the church uncontested.

  6. Veronica

    Yes the passage is talking about Israel but still we are not to judge anyone and that sums it up for me. There is no error in displaying a hunger for God. God extremely loves it!! We are to come to Him like little children. Have we lost our childlike faith that we cannot see what the Father really desires. Think about David and how he danced before the Lord.

  7. Chrystal Post author

    No, scripture says first to pull the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to pull it out of your brother’s eye. It’s not telling us not to judge, it’s telling us not to be hypocrits when we do.

    We can judge righteous judgment, which is judging by God’s Word. We are told to test the spirits, and how can we do that unless we weigh the doctrine these people are teaching, and compare it to God’s Word?

    Not judging is not scriptural.

  8. Veronica

    Yes we do judge by Gods Word but it all depends what type of heart we have when we do judge.

  9. Renee

    Could you please tell us the difference between this video and the way David danced before the lord ??

  10. Chrystal Post author


    David wasn’t a false prophet who leads the masses into false doctrine and mysticism. When David spoke on behalf of the Lord, God really was speaking through him. Dutch Sheets is a false prophet who preaches false doctrine.

    Also, when David danced before the Lord, he danced expressly for the Lord. Dutch Sheets… he teaches these kids lawlessness and chaos.

    Don’t even try to liken Dutch Sheets to King David.

  11. Jonathan

    To call these students and what they are doing shameful breaks my heart (see last part of the post). You cannot honestly judge hundreds of students hearts from watching a 6 minute video. This is not lawlessness and chaos…maybe it looks that way to people of the world…but as followers of Christ we should be seeing hundreds of people worshipping and pouring their heart out to God!

    To touch on what they were speaking and singing about…its true! Compare the legalistic church of today with the pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus’s day. Jesus came to “mess up” a religious system in his time. It was a system of laws and regulations. Read Luke 9:57-10:12…This was the way of Jesus…Look how “messed up” it is…just read it!

    It’s crazy! But thats the way we are called to live…its no longer rules and regulations its this new way of Jesus…and when you read about this way of life it is truly kinda “messed up”. I love it!

    Grace and Peace,

  12. Aaron

    That reminded me of a moshpit. You will have the same reaction to “Christian” rock as you would secular rock music. I’m 17 and I have seen this with my own eyes

  13. Bob

    Wow, some people see lawlessness, irreverence and chaos in this video and what I saw was bunch of young people on fire for God. We didn’t see the slower (i.e. “more reverent”) songs which likely occurred before or after this video, so who are we do judge either Dutch Sheets’ heart or the heart of those gathered?

    I’d rather see a group of young people jumping and dancing before the Lord in this way, than shivering in a corner somewhere coming off of a drug high.

    When is the Church (that’s all of us) going to grow up and ask God to “burn up” what is NOT of Him and “turn up” that which is?

    But I guess it’s just easier to judge these kids and Dutch Sheets even though any one of them probably spends more time in God’s word than the rest of us.

  14. Renee

    In regards to your respone to my comment #11. I am total agreement with what you said. I quess I didn’t ask the question right.. and let me see if I’m understanding you right…..I quess the issue is what ” type of spirit ” are we dancing to? And I quess what I was trying to say was that ..God does not have a problem with us dancing before Him if done in “His” spirit and truth. There are places in the bible that dance is a form of worship. I guess the bible does not really go into detail on “how”or what “manner’ David danced before the lord,, but I’m sure it was pleasing in the sight of the Lord. If the bible did’nt mention on “how” david danced…then God did not give any guidelines on how to dance…..and yes God would not lead us by His Holy spirit into a dance that is not pleasing to Him…seductive , jirations… translike,,,convulsing…such things as those.

  15. Eli

    I don’t believe anyone of us are “judging hundreds of students hearts”, not at all. But I think an important point that should be made is the fact that we are called OUT of this world, to be different, to act different, to speak differently. That being said, when Christian worship looks and sounds like a secular rock concert, is it justified simply because they are saying the name of Jesus? Do you really believe in your heart that Jesus would want HIS worship to look the same as what we find in a rock concert? As I said in a previous post, where’s the reverence? If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck……as the saying goes. These people are being whipped into a frenzy, it’s the same thing that happens when a mass of people are incited to riot. This type of “worship” flies in the face of the guidelines we are given in scripture that tell us how worship should be conducted. Scripture trumps feelings and experience, not just sometimes, but EVERY time. Period. I’ve heard the cry “but God is doing a new thing!” No, God never changes. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hey, I ‘m just repeating what He said). He gave us all we needed in His word. According to His word, “there is nothing new under the sun”.

    One more thing, I don’t buy into that “messed up for Jesus”. I was “messed up” BEFORE I came to Jesus, not after. HE straightened me out, and good. There is no “new way to do Jesus”, contrary to what the emergent church leaders want us to believe.

    To Aaron:

    Exactly!! Thank you for that.

  16. Jonathan


    Thanks for the response to my response! It doesn’t look like a rock concert because its not! There is something different in that room! They are rejoicing because they are free and alive because of Christ. Some have looked at this video and said its “of the world” but I challenge all who think that to really dive into the video and look at each of the students. Ask yourself and pray if you should judge these students and there motives. I honestly believe that if you would ask these students what they were doing I believe most of them would say worshipping the One who set them free. Sure some of them may have come for other motives (most people in Church do too!) but these teens are just worshipping Christ and asking Him to ruffle their feathers a little and ignite a passion (messing them up…messin up there routine to serve Him and to let His glory shine).

    In response to the “new way to do Jesus”. I never said that. I said “It’s crazy! But thats the way we are called to live…its no longer rules and regulations its this new way of Jesus…and when you read about this way of life it is truly kinda “messed up”. I love it!”

    It is true that the way of Jesus was new and is new…THE NEW COVENANT! Your right there is no new way to DO Jesus! Jesus was and is…John 1:1…

    Grace and Peace,
    Jonathan Haag

  17. Pingback: Dutch Sheets, Regarding Lakeland etc.. « Sola Dei Gloria

  18. will-of-YHWH

    Genesis 3:14-15 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between “thy seed” and “her seed”; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    ***the seed of Genesis 3, as promised to Abraham, the Messiah***:

    Genesis 15:6
    Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
    Genesis 15:5-7 (in Context) Genesis 15 (Whole Chapter)

    Deuteronomy 18:14-21 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

    15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

    16According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

    17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

    18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

    19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

    20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

    21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

    Galatians 2:21
    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
    Galatians 2:20-21 (in Context) Galatians 2 (Whole Chapter)

    Galatians 3:6
    Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    Galatians 3:5-7 (in Context) Galatians 3 (Whole Chapter)

    Galatians 5:5
    For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
    Galatians 5:4-6 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter)

    Ephesians 4:24
    And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
    Ephesians 4:23-25 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)

    Titus 3:5
    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Titus 3:4-6 (in Context) Titus 3 (Whole Chapter)

    Romans 4:13
    For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
    Romans 4:12-14 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)

    Romans 4:22
    And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
    Romans 4:21-23 (in Context) Romans 4 (Whole Chapter)

    Romans 5:17
    For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    Romans 5:16-18 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter)

    Romans 1:17
    For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    Romans 1:16-18 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)

    Genesis 47:25
    And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh’s servants.
    Genesis 47:24-26 (in Context) Genesis 47 (Whole Chapter)

    Acts 15:11
    But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
    Acts 15:10-12 (in Context) Acts 15 (Whole Chapter)

    Ephesians 2:5
    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    Ephesians 2:4-6 (in Context) Ephesians 2 (Whole Chapter)

    Ephesians 2:8
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:7-9 (in Context) Ephesians 2 (Whole Chapter)

    2 Timothy 1:9
    Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
    2 Timothy 1:8-10 (in Context) 2 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

    *** the Master said: ***

    Matthew 23:34
    Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
    Matthew 23:33-35 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)

    Luke 11:49
    Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’
    Luke 11:48-50 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)

    Jeremiah 31:31-34 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    *** IF false, then there is TRUE prophets (see above) ***

    Matthew 7:15
    [ A Tree and Its Fruit ] “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
    Matthew 7:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)

    Matthew 24:11
    and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
    Matthew 24:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)

    Matthew 24:24
    For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
    Matthew 24:23-25 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)

    Mark 13:22
    For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
    Mark 13:21-23 (in Context) Mark 13 (Whole Chapter)

    Luke 6:26
    Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.
    Luke 6:25-27 (in Context) Luke 6 (Whole Chapter)

    2 Peter 2:1
    [ False Teachers and Their Destruction ] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
    2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)

    1 John 4:1
    [ Test the Spirits ] Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    1 John 4:1-3 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter)

    Has Jesus and the Spirit of God changed? – what does CHRIST mean? – Anointed One… Anointed with what or whom? – The Holy Spirit that remains… a God of Power, Love and a sound mind… Jesus, being the Anointed One of God, fulfilled ISAIAH 11 and ISAIAH 61… He was made manifest to destroy the WORKS of the evil one.. the Second Adam, under the total influence of the Holy Spirit, as the Father gave Him commandments to do… JESUS only did what He heard and what He saw the Father doing… how? – JESUS was totally led by the Spirit of God; fully man and Anointed and yet fully God who emptied Himself of all divince power… JESUS lived His life of FAITH in the FATHER, and loved Him, by the Spirit of God, with all… understand? – that’s why BLASPHEMY of the Holy Spirit, the Anointing on the man Christ JESUS…

    Romans 5:15
    But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by ***one man***, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    Romans 5:14-16 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter)

    Acts 4:11-12 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

    12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    **whose doctrine did the early church keep themselves to and who is set in the Body to establish “doctrine”? pastors? NO. Teachers? NO. prophets? NO. Evangelists? NO. Apostles? YES. **

    Ephesians 4:1-16 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain

    Ephesians 4
    1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

    2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

    3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

    4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

    6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

    8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

    9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

    10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    11***And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;***

    why? (verse 12-16)

    12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    We must test all teaching; doctrines per the Spirit of Grace / Truth; the Spirit of the Holy Father / Jesus… according to who sets Doctrine… right? This IS the Word of God:

    Ephesians 2:20
    built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
    Ephesians 2:19-21 (in Context) Ephesians 2 (Whole Chapter)

    Ephesians 3:5
    which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.
    Ephesians 3:4-6 (in Context) Ephesians 3 (Whole Chapter)

    2 Peter 3:2
    I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
    2 Peter 3:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter)

    Revelation 18:20
    Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you.’ ”
    Revelation 18:19-21 (in Context) Revelation 18 (Whole Chapter)

    **** – this is key…

    Acts 2:42 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
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    42And they continued stedfastly in the ***apostles’ doctrine*** and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

    *** what is the ministry of an apostle (sent one)?***

    Acts 6:2-4 (King James Version)
    King James Version (KJV)
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    2Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

    3Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

    4But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

    *** others ***

    ***needs of the Church being met… distributors…

    Acts 4:37
    Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    Acts 4:36-37 (in Context) Acts 4 (Whole Chapter)

    *** judging the house of God, by the Spirit’s command (ISAIAH 11)

    Acts 5:2
    And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    Acts 5:1-3 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)

    *** – testify to the resurrection POWER of our Lord JESUS and to destroy the works of the evil one… just like JESUS did…

    Acts 5:12
    And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch.
    Acts 5:11-13 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)

    *** – to challenge the religious spirit of acceptence of LAW and NO supernatural works displayed – *** JESUS said: beware of the leven (teaching) of the Pharasees and Saducees… the arm of the flesh and a FORM of Godliness, denying the Power of the Holy Spirit

    Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
    Acts 5:28-30 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)

    *** – commissioning others to the work of special service, as directed by the Holy Spirit

    Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
    Acts 6:5-7 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter)

    *** – baptism of the Holy Spirit to believers after WATER baptism (of men; JESUS never baptised men with Water, per the Book of John… His baptism was Joel 2 fulfilled in Acts 2 and later in the book of Acts)…

    Acts 8:18
    And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
    Acts 8:17-19 (in Context) Acts 8 (Whole Chapter)

    Romans 1:5
    By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    Romans 1:4-6 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter)

    *** – we are to TEST all!

    2 Corinthians 11:13
    For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    2 Corinthians 11:12-14 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter)

    Revelation 2:2
    I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
    Revelation 2:1-3 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter)

    in the end, God gave us the Holy Spirit as the BEST GIFT, through our FAITH alone in JESUS, the CHRIST…

    seed / root / fruit:

    pride / love of $$ and / or the praise of men / works of the flesh / SELF

    humility / love of God and seeking only the praise of God / works / fruit / gifts of the Holy Spirit “through us”, enabled by our Faith in Him in us, on us and beside us… SO that He can get the Glory and ALL things are summed up in The Anointed One, Jesus, the Lord…

    blessings… will of I-AM

  19. Jonathan


    This is my last comment on this post…it will be scripture because I believe it fits perfectly into what we are talking about.

    1 Corinthians 4:1-5 (HCSB)

    1 A person should consider us in this way: as servants of Christ and managers of God’s mysteries. 2 In this regard, it is expected of managers that each one be found faithful. 3 It is of little importance that I should be evaluated by you or by a human court. In fact, I don’t even evaluate myself. 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself, but I am not justified by this. The One who evaluates me is the Lord. 5 Therefore don’t judge anything prematurely, before the Lord comes, who will both bring to light what is hidden in darkness and reveal the intentions of the hearts. And then praise will come to each one from God.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jonathan Haag

  20. pat holliday

    On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:15 PM, pat holliday wrote:

    Re: the Dutch Sheets letter concerning Todd Bentley’s repentance. The party Jesus…

    These crazy people who know a very familiar Jesus, when Jesus appear to His people in the Bible,
    They fell flat on their faces….in fear and awe of God. These nuts do serve the God that I serve.

    yep, a safe 20 20 vision is better after a raging storm than when you are in the storm…I am telling you these people are incredible…no repentance for their witchcraft that they have unleashed on the world. No repentance for the wild charges that Sheets and his partners continue to release over the brave Christian souls that have put themselves in the middle of these heresies to warn God’s people.

    Tell you the truth; I’m not impressed with his Hail Mary letter.

    They, who have taken Bentley off their TV programs, throw him under the bus and seek as “fathers” his repentance, need to repent themselves and ask forgiveness to the Body of Christ for the demonic exposures to the little dumb sheep that are now demon possessed with Kundalini devils. We can hardly find an American leader that can see and discern the darkness that has taken over a part of the Christian Church…May God have mercy.
    SHEETS and LIKE ALL OF THEM should stand in the office of disgrace until they humble themselves for thinking they can heal a blinded, demonic person of his adultery in their own heretical soul state. They are all walking in spiritual adultery and if the blind leads the blind, they will both fall into the ditch.

    I do forgive them but remember, we are, and were walking through their rebellious fire filled with snakes while we reached out to tell them the truth. How amazing that so many of them could see but did not stir and how incredible that they can now speak out! Can they dare cleanse themselves by our sweat, blood and tears?

    I pray that our Jesus will forgive and convict them all before it is too late. They could be like the reformed drug addicts, prostitutes, and former wizards and witches who make the best witnesses to the world that Jesus’ power is able to forgive them and change their lives.

    When I see them humbly repenting for their silence and agreement with these devils, then I will receive them. However, for now, nothing has changed. Bentley has said some shallow words to those who walk in the same spirit of darkness. It is the pot calling the pot black.

    I am sure the true Christian people and the people in world would experience a much needed healing if these proud, high and mighty so-called church leaders would admit that they too were wrong…This is just not about Bentley. It’s about all those vultures that attacked Christian people by ministering lies and a false revival to its people.

    Repent Bro. Sheet.
    This infected boil that has popped and a few band aids cannot cover it. It must be lanced and extracted for the church to heal.

    Yours in Jesus

    Pat Holliday

  21. Pam Herrick

    Jonathan…you have the right spirit

    Wow, they will know we are christians by our love…wow. We have a lot to learn. Fruit of the spirit reality check time ( I am not judging anyone ..I say that to myself all the time)…How we say things is just as important as what we say, sometimes even more because a wrong spirit can be heard above the words spoken.

    I am happy to see so many giving the King of King the Praise He is due. When you get right down to it, some deep thought here, some are saying there is strange doctrine. Well, I wonder what they were saying when the reformation was taking place. Even the denominations that are in existence have so many doctrines…Unity of love, we are not there yet, but how my heart tenderly yearns for it.

    It is not in how we worship that matters but that our whole heart bends before our Lord. I dance sometimes like David when I worship and sometimes I am lying on my face weeping with the reverance someone commented about above. I am sure those in this video do both as well. What I saw was the freedom that one gentleman was talking about in the above comments. I think it was Jonathan. Oh I do understand that! That is when I do dance like David. See, God redeemed my life from distruction. My 3 kids, ages…22, 24,26 are all on fire for God and they worship like that too. They used to drink and do drugs and were in and out of jail. The Holy Spirit did mess them up! They were messed up in the world in a bad way, now they are messed up in a good way…Their lives will never be the same…they have a freedom that religion quenches. There is a fresh move of God’s Spirit. This is so real and for the people that think the youth and others are just seeking experiences, My kids were caught (little fishes that they were) by the passion of Jesus they saw from people like ones in this video shown… now they have a young adult Bible study everyweek and also on a different night a praise and worship and waiting on the Lord. It does not get any better than that… wait, a little it does, they are so on fire for God they are sharing the Gospel with all their friends. Oh yeah, they are also youth leaders in our church. So in love with God. So in love with Jesus. So in love with the Holy Spirit.

    There are lives touched and ignited by an atmosphere of worship like you see in this video, I know, my kids are fruit. I am fruit. I am wrecked for Jesus. I know, I know…there are some things done that are what may appear a little off. There are things I read in the Bible that appear a little off, like driving a tent peg through someones head…what???

    Anyway, They are getting “caught” remember , fishers of men? It is the Holy Spirit’s job to clean them up. read the statements of faith on some of the leaders you may judge…you may find it is your own.

    I know there are some really crazy things out there…I am sure their statement of faith would not look anything like ours. I once heard a really great saying…most people read the bible from a position to support their doctrine…not reading it at face value…that struck me, that is like making God into “your” God instead of believing what He said. These people I see being judged so severely appear to just be believing God.

    Father, Your Kingdom come and your will be done. Help us to love God. Help us to worship you. Lead us into all truth. Our trust is in You and You alone. Amen


  22. Barry Edwards

    I’m sorry, I forgot we can only get excited and wild at football games and other sporting events. Its funny that most the people who speak out against extravagant or different types of worship tend to be the ones that get extravagant at the football/baseball/hockey/soccer etc. games. We need to be careful of what we truly worship. I have led worship for 15 years
    and love the presence of the Lord and I know Rick and Dutch also love God (1st commandment) please don’t bash others. Oh and last time I checked the bible I didn’t see Jesus or any other ever bashing the way people worship. MESS US UP means LORD HAVE YOUR WAY.

    Barry E

  23. pat holliday

    From: C. Peter Wagner [mailto:janine@globalharvest.ccsend.com] On Behalf Of C. Peter Wagner
    Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:45 PM
    To: maureen@ruii.org
    Subject: An Update on Lakeland from Peter

    An Update on Lakeland from C. Peter Wagner
    August 25, 2008

    I was in the San Francisco airport on my way to Singapore and Indonesia when the news of Todd Bentley’s separation from his wife became public on August 12. When I arrived back home last week, I found that Doris had received and replied to around 1,700 emails and the stack of correspondence on my desk was unbelievable. It took me the rest of the week to catch up!

    During the week I was gone, a major watershed occurred regarding the Lakeland situation as most of you would know. We are now on a new playing field. Lakeland Outpouring I, in which Todd Bentley was the main figure, is now history. Lakeland Outpouring II, in which Stephen Strader of Ignited Church is the main figure, has begun. The Outpouring started in a local church, went to a tent, and now is back in the local church. My suggestion is that we no longer use the term “Lakeland Outpouring” but rather distinguish between Lakeland I and Lakeland II because they are very different.

    Let me talk a bit about the present, then revisit the past, then project the future.

    The Present

    It will sound surprising to some, but Lakeland II in Ignited Church, which you will remember was the original host church, is going very well. The big crowds and GOD TV, of course, are gone. Ignited Church seats around 700 in the main sanctuary and Stephen Strader reports that on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings they have to use their overflow room. It is comfortably filled on week nights. The morning training sessions continue with a couple hundred every day, and teams continue to move daily into the streets of Lakeland spreading the gospel. Percentage-wise the dramatic miracles and healings occur nightly with probably a higher percentage of salvations on a daily basis. Support from local pastors is improving considerably. The most interesting report is that every night some 30 percent are first-time attenders, meaning that people are still coming to Lakeland from the outside to experience Outpouring II. A lady from our church with a severe chronic back problem went to Ignited Church and came home healed! Such a thing does not usually happen when a public figure suddenly goes down the tubes, so we need to take our hats off to the apostolic gifts and role that Stephen Strader is demonstrating for us.

    Speaking of the public figure going down the tubes, Todd Bentley now carries the label of a liar and a deceiver. I’m sorry to mention it, but I felt personally deceived in the same way when Ted Haggard’s sin was exposed and he was immediately removed from ministry. In the Lakeland I case, I am elated at the way things are turning out. The Revival Alliance with whom Todd was aligned on June 23 has kicked into action with a vengeance. Ché Ahn and Bill Johnson, like me, were overseas when things broke, but John Arnott stepped up to the plate and moved in apostolically. It has since become clear that Todd’s Fresh Fire Board could not have handled the situation, Stephen Strader and Ignited Church could not, nor could any of his other close friends. Only the Revival Alliance could. I am delighted that they are not buying into typical charismatic soft morality, also called “greasy grace” or “don’t touch God’s anointed” or “mercy must triumph over judgment,” phrases that have been used on other similar occasions as convenient religious cop-out excuses. They’re proceeding in love, but it is tough love!

    Since this is an update, I will share some of what I know about what is happening with Bentley, but not all because some things need more verification and it is up to discernment of Revival Alliance what and when this will be revealed. Suffice it to say that there is more than I am going to mention. First of all, Todd has been removed from public ministry until further notice. He has resigned from the ministry he founded, Fresh Fire, so he is no longer a part of that board. It has become clear that he indulged in periodic drunkenness. He has no intention at the moment of reconciling with Shonna, nor does she with him. Their marriage has been torn for years by his emotional attachment with at least one other female whose physical contact went beyond hugging and kissing and holding hands. Enough said-maybe more details will be revealed later-but it was clearly immoral. All of this was skillfully concealed by lying and by swearing close associates who had observed his behavior to secrecy. Stephen Strader, for example, knew nothing of this before June 23. Apparently some of his board members did, but they did not have the ability to deal with it.

    The Past

    I hope this is the last time I will have to address the past. It is now history. But as history is written, I feel that I have some responsibility of helping to have history be written accurately, especially since I have turned out to be a lightening rod for a number of severe criticisms.

    Most of you know this, but let me reiterate to keep it on record. Previous to around the middle of June, my interest in Lakeland was about a 2 on a scale of 1-10. Then I got a call from Stephen Strader, the host pastor who was a member of ICA, which I lead, with a passionate appeal for apostolic intervention because chaos and confusion had begin to invade the Outpouring I. Toward the end of the hour we were talking, I received one of my infrequent direct words from God: “Alignment!” Just one word, but I knew I had a divine command and responsibility.

    Once I knew that God had assigned me to initiate some sort of apostolic intervention at Stephen’s side, I began praying and consulting with close colleagues. In less than two days I discovered that Todd Bentley had no formal, established apostolic alignment. I asked God how I should proceed, especially since I had no inclination to attempt an apostle-evangelist approach and expect that Bentley would submit to or even listen to what I had to say if I made an appointment with him in Lakeland. I felt that proper apostolic protocol would be for me to deal with one or more peer-level apostles to whom Todd had aligned apostolically. Since as yet he had no such alignment, I began asking God how such an alignment might come about. He directed me to my close friend, Ché Ahn, who himself is apostolically aligned with me and who also had been close to Bentley for years. Ché agreed that the best apostolic protocol would be for Todd to align with the Revival Alliance if he were willing. Ché called him and Bentley agreed to submit publicly to the Revival Alliance.

    At this point some disagreements arose. I have already mentioned that I was consulting with several apostolic colleagues whom I trusted and whom I know trusted me. It is very necessary for us to understand exactly what the disagreement was about. It was about the most appropriate apostolic protocol for the occasion. After prayerfully listening to the different points of view with careful consideration of what was being said, the decision had to be mine. I believe that God’s word to me about “Alignment!” had to be directional. I concluded that the best protocol was to do the alignment first, then deal with the issues that had been raised. My other friends disagreed and urged me to deal with Todd’s problems first then do the alignment. I respected their point of view and I was very sorry that I had to follow God’s leading for me personally instead of taking their advice. It was not a comfortable decision.

    Now let me address what was behind much of their disagreement with my apostolic protocol. They were concerned that if I appeared on the platform with GOD TV, many viewers would interpret it as my personal endorsement of everything that was going on in Lakeland I, and since they were so closely associated with me, they would be implicated as well. This was a legitimate concern, and one I seriously wrestled with as I made my decision. If I went to Lakeland and presided over the alignment, some might well take it as an endorsement. It was a risk, I knew. Let me say personally that all my life I have been a risk-taker instead of a play-it-safe person, and I have taken many hits for it. As an example going to the jungles of Bolivia as a career field missionary when I was 25 with my wife and a one-year-old baby girl was a serious risk. Both that daughter and another who was born in the jungle without medical attention came close to losing their lives during those five years. And we were criticized for our decision to take the risk by many, including parents!

    Closer to the Lakeland I situation, I have a private list of no fewer than 18 high-profile Christian leaders starting from the 1970s until Bentley for whom I took risks. For each one of them I took serious criticisms and in some cases personal hits even much more serious than I have received in this current case because I endorsed or partnered with or provided alignment for them. Some were typified as “crazy!” However, I can pretty much discern winners, although not always. My track record for the 18 is 72% emerged as real winners (you would know most of them), 17% ended up losers (including Bentley), and 11% indecisive. I’m sorry for the losers, but they prove I am not perfect. The point I am making is that I am no stranger to taking risks and living with the fallout.

    One fallout from Lakeland I is that several have resigned from ICA and other organizations that I lead because they no longer want to be identified with me. Others are still upset. Still, believe it or not, I think that everyone involved is still my friend. We just disagree.

    I want it understood that I did not go to Lakeland on June 23 for Todd Bentley. I had never met him personally. I had no knowledge of and little interest in his ministry. I went because I received an apostolic plea to help bring order to the confusion and chaos that was sweeping through the body of Christ worldwide because of the television. I went strictly for the body of Christ at the invitation of the host pastor of the Outpouring I.

    The final question is: Was it successful? Looking back, I praise God for using me and others to help bring order to confusion, which is one of the chief biblical tasks of an apostle. Stephen Strader, who has been keeping records, affirms that the evil that the prince of the power of the air had been subtly introducing into the Outpouring I started to be exposed and unraveled the day after the alignment, June 24! Spiritually, this is very understandable. Just about every leader I knew had discerned that Lakeland I was a mixture of the godly and the ungodly. We were praying in one accord that the evil would be separated from the good. My take is that God had decided to answer these prayers and in order to facilitate His process, He assigned me and the Revival Alliance leaders and others who were with us to align Todd Bentley apostolically for the first time in his life. When we did this publicly, spiritual transactions took place in the invisible world that would not allow the enemy to maintain the veil of secrecy he had carefully placed over the Outpouring. The evil was exposed, Revival Alliance had the authority to deal with it, and the net result is that order is replacing chaos in the body of Christ.

    In my section above on “The Present” I gave you some details. Believe me, they are only the tip of the iceberg as I just learned from a new phone call even as I was writing this paper. The proper apostolic structure, happily, is in place at the time of crisis!

    The Future

    It is now important to recognize that from now on we have a different playing field. Two separate things are going on. (1) The Revival Alliance is dealing with Todd Bentley and the fallout from his sin that has been and continues to be exposed. (2) I have told you previously about a group of 11 apostles that I have formed into the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team. We no longer need to deal with Lakeland I and Bentley as such. However, we have a list of 24 serious issues that have emerged from that unpleasant experience which need to be thoroughly discussed with the conclusions circulated in the body of Christ. If you have seen Dutch Sheets’ recent “A Statement and Appeal Regarding Lakeland” you will get a glimpse of some of the things that we agree need to become standard operational beliefs and practices, particularly in our charismatically-inclined evangelical segment of the church.

    It will take time, but our Apostolic Team will get to work on the 24 issues after some of this present dust settles, and we will be back to you!


    No virus found in this incoming message.

  24. pat holliday


    God will protect us. He is not against America and its people. He loves us and says that it is His desire that NONE perish. These crazy, deluded prophets see water disasters as God cleaning the land. It is not raging waters that clean people and the land….It is the Blood of Jesus.
    He sent His disciples to preach His victory to the lost souls. In the New Testament that’s what His true believers have always done. He never anointed spiritually ignorant men and women to take up a staff and release His judgments upon any person, place by pronouncing curses and striking the places with magical wands.

    We just went through Fay that hit our state four times…. Meanwhile another is heading our way….
    These strange prophets are heading out to maybe your state soon… see my article above….
    Pray, God is on our side….

    Pray for Florida and our nation concerning these spiritual vultures.

    Pat Holliday

  25. Pingback: Identificational repentance? « Northwest Musings

  26. stan

    How can Dutch Sheets get away with such lies? How can he sleep at night knowing he’s misleading so many gullible people, especially, the young ones, who now wave their arms in the ay-ir like because they just don’t cay-re?

  27. Nancy Losier

    What’s wrong with dancing with joy because you love God? also, we don’t know the “language” that young people use these days…like saying something is “bad” really means it is good. You know that being “messed up” means a bad thing in our language of the generation born in the 40’s, but the kids have different meanings to things, and I think that Dutch Sheets is correctly telling us this vision in the vernacular of the young people at this gathering. I would much rather see ALL these people dancing excitedly for God, than to the tunes of many of the Satanic verses in some modern day music!

    The intolerance demonstrated in many of the posts above just demonstrates to me that we still have to deal with Pharisees in the body of Christ these days…. those who insist on sticking to rituals and liturgy, which young people find very hard to swallow these days! So you must look at this whole thing from the viewpoint of the flock in that video, and besides, we are not to JUDGE – only God is worthy of that. Perhaps this is a challenge to you, and you need to be especially careful in your response….you may need to learn something about God.

  28. Mattthecricketbat

    Wow. I agree wholly and completely with Nancy. Being ¨messed up¨in the Holy Spirit is totally Ephesians 5 joy – don´t be drunk with wine, but filled with the Spirit as you sing songs of praise… hmmm

    Basically there´s verses for everything lol. You could build whatever case you want for whatever you wanna build, but unless the Spirit is revealing and showing stuff, it´s no good. I´m not sure this type of mud-slinging was what was meant when Paul wrote to Timothy to teach, correct, etc…

  29. John

    I think that this would have been an amazing worship experience. And you know what, it does look like a secular rock concert, as well as a christian rock concert and a youth body on fire for God trying to express that they don’t care what their friends think of them because they’re dancing for joy in the presence of their lord. This is much like worship at most CHRISTIAN youth conferences. Not only that but my church’s Sunday morning service has worship very similar to this.

    Just to name a few examples of holy spirit led worship sessions.

    God Bless everyone (on both sides of the debate)

  30. eden

    do you notice how rick pino was singing “mess us up in your presence o god…hes messign up eligion tonight?” i was there that night. this was only part of the service-not that it matters. you get the general idea, he was singing those words because of people like u. people like you who live in religious bubbles and boxes. my generation is sick of closed-minded people who think worship is hymns and raising their hands politely to be “modest and christian-like”. Jesus came for the very reason to save us from sin -obviously- and shake off the religious chains of the people and th e pharisees. They were all religion. they walked around with their heads held high thinking they had it all under their hat but someone came along and showed them otherwise and they did NOT like it one bit. now im not saying rick pino is jesus. but i am saying that his songs have a meaning. and not all of his songs are like this. this was free flow worship. he was singing this song to prove a point. worship is NOT ALWAYS STRUCTURED & CHOREOGRAPHED. he was making a point. and it obviously made a point because a lot of people are blogging about how this is just so awful and demon-filled and not how jesus would have it. this has messed up their religious mind set and shaken them up. this was his point.



  31. eden

    what? that your thinking is a way of closed minded thinking? its nothing but religion? do you want me to give you a verse about heritics?
    maybe you should go to the ramp and see what its all about…before you go passing judegement on something youve only seen bits and pieces of from youtube.
    if you want me to back up religious thinking with verses…ill be more than happy to…? is that what you want?

  32. Chrystal Post author

    Yes, anything and everything you just said. Back it up with scripture.

    You said that people like me live in religious bubbles and boxes. Prove it with scripture.

    You say Rick Pino was singing those words about people like me. Okay, prove all of that with scripture.

    You accuse us of being pharisees. Prove it with scripture.

    If you’re going to unequivocally judge us as being those things, then you better have God’s Word to back up that claim, otherwise it’s just your opinion, and you’re here throwing a temeper tantrum because we happen to reject the style of worship that you like.

  33. Chrystal Post author

    Oh, and one more thing, please provide scriptural support for Rick Pino’s claim that the angel of Zechariah 4 appeared to him, as well as support for the “message” this angel supposedly gave to him. Here is his quote:

    “A word about Angel of Awakening from Rick:

    “In late October 2006 I was visited by the angel of Zechariah chapter 4. In this encounter, the Lord used this messenger to speak to me about how He was going to be releasing this mighty angel to blow the trumpet of awakening in the earth the following year. ‘Angel of Awakening’ is part of that emerging sound of awakening! A sound of bones rattling in the desert! This studio project is a compilation of songs that I have received from the Lord, and songs that the Lord poured out spontaneously in the sessions. As you listen, I pray that you would be awakened to love again, to life again, and to your destiny in Him as sons and daughters.”

    Here’s some URLs for confirmation:



    More extra-biblical revelation.

    Oh, and by the way, I never said, nor do I believe, that the only form of worship is hymns.

  34. Carol

    I am concerned when people think it’s acceptable to use worldly things, such as rock music and such and try to say it’s the worship of God. It would not be any more acceptable if someone would be playing bluegrass music and the audience broke out into clogging, or Christian Polka music and the crowd did Polka dancing and claimed it was worship of God. It doesn’t matter what type of cultural music and dance, when you take things of the world, the occult or paganism and slap a Christian nametag on it, it is NOT acceptable to God. This is a false idea of what worship is to be.

    We are to worship God in Spirit and in truth, not with loud music and wild dancing. And do NOT use David’s dance to God as an excuse to allow Rock music to be part of the worship. People like to pick verses or passages out of context and base their beliefs upon those isolated parts. An example is of Paul on the island of Malta who was bitten by a snake and was able to shake it off and not get sick. So people base their beliefs that they can handle snakes and that is acceptable to God.

    It also disturbs me when people use the overly misused verse “judge not lest ye be judged”. We are to examine and judge other believers by looking at what they profess and how they act. If they are acting out of line we are to bring this up to them in a loving manner. We are NOT to judge someone in the instance, for example, if we have a problem with gossip and spreading slanderous things, and we judge someone else who gossips and act as if we are superior to them when we are, in fact, guilty of the same sinfulness. That is when we speak of “remove the log in our own eyes, before we try to remove specks from someone else’s eyes.” When we are guilty of things and we condemn someone else for the same thing, we are wrong in doing such.

    I also am concerned when people talk about others being judgmental because they do not hold to the loose teachings that they hold to. It’s always the case when those who actively participate in these wild churches, or emergent, or purpose driven churches and endorse those leaders who promote this loose “Christianity” get mad at those who hold to Scriptural teachings and are conservative in their worship and music and dress codes, call the conservatives “judgmental”, when they are fully judgmental themselves, and moreso, especially if they use fowl language to defend their beliefs and practices and leaders.

    They talk about how the “conservatives” need to walk in “love”, when they, themselves need to learn Scriptural love, as in I Corinthians 13.

    Live by the Entire Word of God, and not just selected verses to uphold one’s own arguments.

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