This silence thing always baffled me.
What if I go into my boss’s office and say I want to have a conversation with him, but then sit there, breathe in and out, and remain silent. He would look at me like I was nuts.
Why, then, do people insist on praying, but instead go into “the silence?” There’s only one reason… they want extra-biblical revelation from God. Translated, that roughly means they aren’t satisfied to know the written Scripture of God and seek for knowledge outside of that, which is forbidden.
God wants us to come to him in prayer, and prayer should be a constant and fruitful part of our daily lives. (1 Thessalonians 5:17) It’s counterproductive to go to Him under the guise of prayer and sit there silent.
Using your mind is good. Silencing it and entering into a trance is bad. Black. White. Up. Down. Polar opposites.
The silence is the opposite of 1 Thessalonians 5:17, wouldn’t ya say?
And yes, that does appear to be John Piper standing on stage with Beth Moore and Francis Chan.
Update: Click here to read an excellent post about this topic on Apprising Ministries.
It is John Piper: http://apprising.org/2012/01/06/beth-moore-and-john-piper-lead-lectio-divina-lite-at-passion-2012/
Thanks, bro. Gonna post it on the main post.
This form of prayer is sweeping the church, basically it is a type of meditation. Repetition type prayers, breath prayers e.g. Be still and know that I am God (said over and over) are a type of eastern mysticism meditation. It is disguised as “christian” by adding Jesus, God or Scripture verses into the “prayers” to make it acceptable to the church. Search for the god inside you is the aim, listen for the inner voice, and guess what, there is someone just waiting to whisper to you, deep mysteries and secrets. Familiar spirits with their new revelations and extra biblical inspiration.
Run for your life from this stuff christian Please read your KJV Bible and do what it says!
Enough of the strange fire and different spirit, flee to the city of refuge that is Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is Lord.
O LORD, you have searched me, and known me. You know my downsitting and my uprising, you understand my thought afar off. You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, you know it altogether. You have hedged me behind and before, and laid your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
Where shall I go from your Spirit? or where shall I flee from your presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall your hand lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.
If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hides not from you; but the night shines as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to you. For you have formed my inward parts: you have covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise you; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are your works; and that my soul knows right well. My frame was not hid from you, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Your eyes did see my substance, being yet unformed; and in your book they were all written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them. How precious also are your thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand:
when I awake, I am still with you.
(Psa 139:1-18)
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This is not to endorse Beth Moore, or Contemplative Prayer, or navel gazing.
Where can we go where God is not there?
Even if a person goes “into the silence” God is there. Whether they talk to Him, or don’t talk to Him, He is there anyway., IF THEY ARE SAVED disciples of Jesus.
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Regardless of the errors of Contemplatiive Prayer, it is entirely appropriate to take the time to be alone with God for extended times, and to enjoy Him and His fellowship, where it doesn’t matter if your words are few, or how long you spend with Him.
Even if your words are few, you should still think about Him and His word, His ways and all He has done. And i think that’s what Chrystal said, we should never shut down our mind.
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Guard your steps when you go to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil. Be not rash with your mouth, and let not your heart be hasty to utter anything before God: for God is in heaven, and you upon earth: therefore let your words be few. For a dream comes through much business; and a fool’s voice is known by a multitude of words.
(Ecc 5:1-3)
Self-will, a false zeal that arises from the flesh, not the Spirit: what the Lord calls “emulations” in Galatians 5 [use the concordance to define the word; it shows up in Paul’s description of the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-20).
Listening to her is like being pounded by a thin, well-dressed jackhammer.
Please forgive me …
I bought my pastor a copy of the “BE STILL” DVD well over a year ago. It feathured well renouwn speakers such as Max Lucado, Phyllis Shirer and (of course) Beth Moore. Also listed were other “teachers” such as CP teacher himself, Dallas Willard…
WHY DID I BUY MY PASTOR THIS DVD?!??! Well you see my church also has a Life Way Christian schook, grades K-12. Since LifeWay is attachedto our church, and naturally, they’re in the habit of putting up posters for every type of women’s converence, men’s conference, you name it, then there was BETH
“Well”, he said, “I just didn’t see anything awfully wrong with it. We ALL need to meditate on God’s word.” HELLO?!!??! Did he even watch all of it?!!??
That was well over a year agop and this past week’s bulletin listed a brand new Beth Moore study available to “all the hungry women of the church?!!!
You tell me, WHERE is ther even one lousy place where Jesus, or anyone, tells us to slow our breathing rate, and repeat a word of phrase over and over “IN ORDER” to fully hear from GOD?!!?!
Without wishing to endorse any of the individuals or practices mentioned in the post, it is worth noting that the Bible does say “Be still and know that I am God”. I’m also told that when it says “Praise awaits You, O God”, the word awaits implies silence,not noise.
This is what I agree with. Many times my wife and I simply enjoy being in each other’s presence, without speaking. That is healthy. Spending time with God, LISTENING, being silent, is perfectly biblical in my opinion. Too often we pray and feel we have to do all the talking, claiming, rebuking, asking, etc. I have no problem with this teaching,..
except when it turns into mantra and soulishness.
God speaks in the still small voice. Be still… Wait on the Lord.
I definitely do not endorse those people, but your example merits a tertiary opinion. On the same token, what if you went to your boss and said you need to have a conversation, and then just sit there and talk the whole time, say “bye”, and then leave? I think that would get annoying quickly. Many times I feel we talk, talk, talk, and never have room to listen to God. I’m not talking about transcendental meditation or repetition, but just shutting up for a few seconds so he can speak to us. It reminds me of charismatics who pray, pray, pray for guidance, but never stop shouting, “naming”, or “claiming” long enough to actually hear God speak. I feel silence is sometimes equally important (if not more so) than speaking during prayer. You mention polar opposites; typically the correct path is somewhere in the middle of extremes.
Agreed – right on. Prayer is not completely analogous to physical conversation. There has to be a time where we get out of the physical and enter the spiritual. What does that look like. “fixing our eyes on Jesus” is a matter of the heart and spirit, with a still body, methinks.
Sidefall, have you ever looked at the context of those passages? They have nothing to do with the likes of contemplative prayer.
Glenn, that wasn’t my point. All I am saying is that the Bible seems to suggest that there is a place for being silent before God, and so I don’t think we should argue that it is unbiblical, pagan, or something to be avoided, in itself. On other occasions I have argued strongly that man-made religious experiences are absolutely nothing to do with God.
“Be still and know that I am God” is in reference to not worrying, to know He is God and He is in control.
There is something I don’t understand along this topic. I agree that transcendental meditation is masquerading as Biblical prayer in the church. I was into TM before I came to Jesus, and I recognize when people are pushing TM as some ‘new’ kind of prayer (or some ancient ‘lost’ form of prayer). And for the record I steer clear of all the folks in the video.
But is the writer of this post saying that the Holy Spirit does not speak to a believer, ever? I see some obvious examples in the NT of the “Spirit said…”
Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” Acts 8:29
While Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you.” Acts 10:19
While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Acts 13:2
I have left Charismania and I am still sorting things out. Is this a case of a cessationist belief that the Holy Spirit only spoke directly to people while the original apostles were alive? Or are you simply saying to go through some ritual to try and get God to speak is wrong? (In which case I agree with that)
Ruthsongs,
I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying Contemplative Prayer and emptying the mind in order to go into a trance state in order to hear from God is wrong.
I see. Thanks.
Silence and contemplation is good. Just because it baffles you doesn’t mean it is wrong. God connects with us how God wants to, not how you or I say. Where does Jesus explicitly denounce contemplative prayer? We can sometimes be too superstitious and fearful of what we are not used to, dubbing it New Age or ‘atheistic’. Remember, we were once called atheists by the Romans because we were not what people were used to.
What’s in that video and being taught regarding this “contemplative prayer” and all that silence is pagan as clearly stated by Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Himself:
“And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.” Matthew 6:5 – 7 KJV
Of course, those in that video are also attempting to corrupt this very pure doctrine in order to support Tantra Meditation dressed up as Christianity.
Emptying your mind to hear from God is wrong. Meditating on Scripture to hear from God is right.
The NASB explains “Be still” = cease striving. Thanks for posting this Chrystal, and for pointing out the true meaning of be still, Marlene and Glenn. May we continue to shine bright as God’s ambassadors, before the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ. God Bless, ~Brenda
There is a lot I could say, but what I will say is this is nothing but New Age . They (Christians unfortunately some of them) have taken out of context The Word of God, His Meaning and applied it to thier own “worldly secular Thinking” and added a twist of new age w/ a lingo of Christian twisting. Many churches are entering into the Laodicia Churches and many truly believe that their churches are not getting polluted. It is no longer just Charsmatic, and others , I have known people in Lutheran to Episcople to the well known ones we all know of and somehow the lingo and people change but what doesn’t change is that they are all getting swept up into this stuff. It is like a spreading disease and the only cure is wanting to truly know the heart of the Lord and what HE says not necessarily what man has been saying . There have been some great men preachers and still are some where, but there is much mixture going on.
And I am sorry to say, multitudes and I mean Mulititudes are getting swept up in this stuff. Churches here in Texas , one can not go into one where there is not a touch of Dominionism , Emergent, New Age, Twisting going on. Somehow, people don’t necessarily “get it” until too late. We can walk into most of these churches we used to attend for months to years and now they have residue of all this stuff where as before there was none. People/leaders/they go to these conferences and bring back the garbage that is being spit out and NO one stops them and if you try , you are spit out and dumped on. Maybe not completely but chewed on or nawed on a bit , to the point that you know they will not see the truth, nor do they want you around.
Beth Moore has been going in this direction for a while now. Matter of fact, she has polluted along w/ others BSF (bible study fellowship) and in their “catalog” of things to read, they promote her books . Of coarse Max Lucado has been headed this direction for years and it could have all started long before anyone ever caught on to what he was doing —–whether he realized it or not, and most likely knowing the man, he didn’t realize it, but now that church is being led down another path because the now Sr. Pastor is from Bill Hybels church who is known for the Emergent ways and teachings. In 4 yrs. time, Oak Hills Church has started down the slippery slope more and more.
As one goes back and sees some of these churches they can see the “change” Discernment is necessary and asking for the Wisdom of our Lord is a must and to have eyes to see , ears to hear (HIS TRUTHS) and what is NOT HIS Truths because it is easy to get swept up in this stuff innocently and be deceived. We might know the “obvious ones” but there are subtle ones that are not so obivious and it doesn’t necessarily reflect in one or two or a month of Sundays, being a visitor.
By the way, multitudes from IHOP and all the NAR/dominionist relationships to even now Patricha King, Bill Johnson and others (which we all know as false ministries) but they are well received and well known and many from these other church communities have friends, family or have gone themselves and come back and say “oh this was so good , listen to it and you will be blessed” ANyway, then they are invited to a “soaking meeting” Oh, they are told that it is all about Jesus our Lord and “hearing from HIm , worshipping HIM and Glorifying HIM and hearing HIS TRUTHS as HE shows you visions and talks to you.even getting a healing—–and hands are layed all over you. —this too is new age and part of Reiki and other alternative methods (going to a higher power) Years ago, the main people of New Age, declared that they would bring into focus their power into the mainstream churches and we are seeing so many of them now coming into action.
If anyone has ever been part of a new age movement, massage, experienced any alternative modalities even if they were Christians giving the treatments and or teachings——the only thing I can suggest is that you go to the Lord , repent, renounce and ask HIM to forgive you and to bring all teachings , all lies, all training , all disceptions to you , so you can truly not have any of this stuff in you .
I have massaged many of these people we have talked about . No longer but at one time I did. And one thing the Lord was showing and teaching me, was NONE of these people EVER renounced , Repented nor steered clear of this stuff. Somehow, whether, fame or fortune, and ofcoarse because they were into “themselves” more than Christ,——these doors remained opened. God knows the heart of each and every one of us and all these people that we are hearing about , learning about, and finding out about, are excellent lessons for each and everyone of us, so we will NOT fall into the same way of deception. Most all of us think we won’t and can’t , but satan knows what and who to use and I have seen time after time, these good people get swallowed up and as a therapist, ——-I saw many that I never would have thought would have anything to do w/ some of this stuff and now they do——–10 -20 yrs. later.
Well said, Nicole. You’re right It isn’t just a charismatic thing anymore. Pick a denomination – ANY denomination and you’ll find it In there SOMEwhere.
Come Lord Jesus, come.
This is scarey stuff. John Piper and Beth Moore both have large followings. Contemplative prayer leads one away from the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ. One can be silent before the Lord but never are we to empty our mind as is the goal of contemplative prayer which is yoga meditation.
I work for a university. This mystical stuff has spread into colleges, health care and churches. It is also being used in elementary schools for stress relief. At a recent work related conference, we were lead into a meditation and I got up and left. I came back home and wrote my concerns and presented them to my boss. I will not stay and be taught to do this mind emptying practice.
Contemplative prayer is the exact same thing. They just use different words or mantras in church. Believers need discernment. Just because you put a Christian name on it, does not make it Biblical.
I remember hearing several years ago, when I attended Mike Bickle’s church, that the next big revival would be one that would be silence. Huge gatherings would just be silent. At the time, I wondered about that. Now, I see that this is happening. Silence can never bring repentance.
If I had not repented of these deceptive teachings, I would have freely accepted the work related yoga session. May the Lord open our eyes, our ears and help us speak the truth about what is being taught in our churches.
“Contemplative prayer leads one away from the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ”: And what would you say this gospel was – and how does it lead one away from it?
“Silence can never bring repentance”: Please can you explain why you have stated this as fact?
Many thanks Carol.
“they aren’t satisfied to know the written Scripture of God and seek for knowledge outside of that, which is forbidden.” – I take no issue with the statement above, which I quote from your post. I would like a scripture reference that backs up the statement. Two or three, if possible, please. Obviously the forefathers of the faith (Abraham, Moses, etc.) did receive direct revelation from the Lord. The apostles did likewise. What would be helpful for me, and possibly others, is a brief but sufficient scriptural backing of the statement I quoted above. Thanks.
P.S. This is a serious request and not some sort of twisted sarcasm. I appreciate the work you do and desire to “be a Berean.” Thanks.
This has always confused me. Why does modern-day Christianity feel the need to introduce one trend after another to get in touch with God? Do any of these folks read the Bible? Do they even understand the Bible? The Bible is a very straightforward book written by inspired men of God. There is nothing secretive, complicated, magical, mystical, or unreachable by the common man. Salvation is attainable for everyone. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Bible says that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. What is so difficult about that? Why does that require a 4-pack DVD set with a 3-day conference in the mountains, learning to chant a new revelation whipped up by the latest religious guru?
What worked 2000 years ago will still work today. The things that were sin 2000 years ago are still sin today. We serve the same God today and will serve the same God tomorrow. Jesus still saves, heals and answers prayer. He still requires holiness and righteousness. If it was a commandment in the Old Testament or New Testament, it will still be a commandment tomorrow. If God blessed folks yesterday, He will bless folks tomorrow.
The Christian church has managed to complicate everything that is easy to understand about the Holy Scriptures. They turn the beautiful, miracle-working and understandable message of the Gospel into a convoluted equation that would confuse a Harvard-educated professor. Miracles have been turned into magic and salvation has been turned into works. Worship has been turned into a three-ring circus, and lost folks are still wandering around in a dry and barren land. So, what is the point and where has this religious sideshow taken the church in the last fifty years?
A Gospel tract and a Bible is just too easy. We would never want the spiritual light to come on that quickly. A preacher behind a pulpit needs spotlights, praise teams, expense accounts and sound systems. The message must have a formula, complete with big, thunderous words clouded by ostentatious grandiosity. In other words, it has turned into a big, fat sparkly show, complete with actors and their props. It must have a price tag on it. Let us not forget that the simple message of the Gospel doesn’t produce dollars, it produces salvation, hope, and eternal life. That certainly doesn’t put a Mercedes in the garage. Today’s evangelism comes with a price; therefore, a clearly simple message must be wrapped in a fancy package.
“…they aren’t satisfied to know the written Scripture of God and seek for knowledge outside of that, which is forbidden.”
I’ve quoted the article above. I’m kindly requesting the scriptural backing for this statement. I made this request the other day and either my post wasn’t received by the server or it has disappeared for some reason. My request is sincere. Not everyone reading this blog knows where the Bible forbids extra-biblical knowledge. I am hoping someone will be kind enough to post two or three verses backing up the quote. ruthsongs above requested clarification, and the response from Chrystal Whitt is lacking biblical support for the text I quoted.
I’ve spent a lot of time reading a lot of blogs and boards for the last 12 years or so, and I understand how it can be interpreting the tome of the written word. Please know that my tone is sincere and is not sarcastic, accusatory, or otherwise mean-spirited. As I wrote last week (but can not seem to find here now), Abram, Moses, Paul, etc., all heard from the Lord in a direct way or via angels. The quote above seems to suggest that seeking God for a direct answer is forbidden by Scripture. I’m not arguing for or against this point. I merely seek to read and study the verses that support the point. As I stated last week, I’m doing my best Berean imitation.
My apologies if you have already replied to my inquiry.
Toby,
Please forgive me. Your post was awaiting moderation. I haven’t been on since you posted it because I’ve been under the weather. Here’s an answer to your question. Please follow this link and read the article. It answers things so much more thoroughly than my feeble brain ever could.
http://www.gty.org/blog/B100111
Nothing to forgive. Thanks for McArthur link. Very helpful. I pray for your speedy and full recovery.
Well said Norma.
Dr Piper, what is going on with you? First Rick Warren and now this?
I guess that is what happens when you try to be more “connected” with other popular ministries.
Please repent. Please.
Here’s what the Pope had to say about silence just this morning: http://www.radiovaticana.org/EN1/Articolo.asp?c=557181
Oh dear, I am so confused. I happen to like Beth Moore. It is because of her that I have memorized so much scripture. But I am no scholar, and these kinds of things really confuse me.
carry on…