Since the tithing rap was such a big hit here (sarcasm), I thought you might like to see these videos from Christian Faith Center, which is pastored by Casey Treat.
Here is the Granny Tithing Rap.
And here is Granny Rap, part 2, where the subject is “faith.” Some of the lyrics are….”Walk up to the devil – get in his face.” Mmmmm hmmmm… let me know how that works for ya.
This reminds me of what the Bible says:
Jude 1:3-13:
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
Tell you what. Get rid of the stage, the lights, the sound system, the video ministry, the youtube clips, the costumes, the grand piano, etc, etc……and you won’t have to beg your audience for money in this way anymore by embarrassing yourselves and showing the entire world just what a bunch of hypocrites Christians are.
They take a perverted system like rap music – which brags about killing people and performing all kinds of evil acts, but then thanks God for their success – and use it, the beats, the production, the songs, the language, the manners of acting….to try and get you to give them money….or die trying (50 cent?).
How long before these guys have the whole congregation coming to church dressed in drag so they can do “The Rocky Horror Tithing Show.”
Reminds me of my old church– crrraazy stuff. Glad I’m outta there! K
Post Modern, Purpose Driven Dribble, Willow Creek Entertainment, and other affilaited churches of the same man-made-vain-imagination programs based in Pelagiasm theology. It’s still being friends with the world (enemies of God) and presenting a false weak gospel to the masses.
Heartbreaking! This is repulsive. And every bit as sad as this pathetic mockery is the cheering, laughing crowds. I LOVE a good sense of humor but this is far from funny. Their cavalier attitudes about the seriousness of spiritual warfare just exposes their ignorance. The “conditioning” of the crowds to manipulate them to give is discusting. Their attempt to mix worldliness with pseudo godliness leads people down the broad road to destruction! Like I said, it is heartbreaking. 2 Timothy 3:13 “But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.”
Got any bleach? I need to scrub my mind now.
Now where was it exactly that I recently saw all of Jude quoted…hmmm…I think it was my post in your blog just last week. Thanks for again reminding folks of who these knuckleheads really are…whether or not we like the personality in the pulpit. Fruit and lack thereof are indicators of who folks are based upon Jesus’ Word, not how I feel.
That Casey treat looks like he’s wearing a tupee, or wig. When taking into consideration the true roots of rap music and the fact that it’s demonic and performed by criminals and murderers, it shows the true spirit that these women are filled with along with the congregation. This article from Wkipedia gives the details as to the origins of this rubbish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_hip_hop
These words from our God and Saviour Jesus sums up this behviour and these doctrines and performances perfectly:
“Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” John 8:44 KJV
I think the noise in my stomach is either that I am hungry this morning or the utterly disgusting feeling I have about what I just saw and heard. I hope it’s the former.
“Slide your rump”…”let’s do the bump”? Those words made me cringe. Then they actually turn around and shake their rumps at the ‘congregation’?! AND… the ‘congregation’ hoots and hollers at this spectacle…like people would do in a barroom. This is not a church and the people in that ‘congregation’ are not Christians. This is nothing more than a building filled with false converts who (sadly) have never heard the true gospel of Jesus Christ….know nothing of the holiness of God nor do they have proper fear of God which is the beginning of wisdom. This is the rotten fruit of the seeker friendly purpose driven, ‘it’s all about you’, gospel-less indoctrination that is rampant today. What sad state the American Church is in and sadly, this doctrine of demons is being exported to other countries as well.
I have to agree with you Rose. These people are not Christians. They spur one another on in their idolatry. They have no comprehension of who God is…There is little difference between our North American gods and the gods of other nations. Here in Taiwan, I am hearing the call to Temple worship. Off they go to the temple to worship their money god, their blessing god, their fertility god, their healing god…sound familiar????
And here we are exporting our Christianized gods to other countries, as if they did not have enough of their own….
God has revealed himself in his Word. There is no other way to know him…not through skits or through haphazard teachings using bits and snatches of the word to back up their idolatry.
Jeremiah 16:18-20 18 I will repay them double for their wickedness and their sin, because they have defiled my land with the lifeless forms of their vile images and have filled my inheritance with their detestable idols.”
19 LORD, my strength and my fortress,
my refuge in time of distress,
to you the nations will come
from the ends of the earth and say,
“Our ancestors possessed nothing but false gods,
worthless idols that did them no good.
20 Do people make their own gods?
Yes, but they are not gods!”
I was surprised to see such immodesty, the skaking of their chests, hips, and their behinds…but I was utterly shocked to hear the congregation hooting and hollering in approval!
very sad.
I liked “Life in the Church”s comment about getting rid of the “fluff”….too bad people WANT that sort of thing. The question we should be asking is: Why? Whay do they want all the gadget?
Answer: Becuase most of them do not know any better. I am willing to wager – based on my own experience with these things – that most of the people who are drawn to this sort of tragedy are very young in faith and have simply not been taught the bible. Why should they read the bible when they have a puppet spewing out garbage about how much God wants to just love on them and encourage them? If I didn’t know any better, that woul dsound pretty good to me too!
I used to get angry at things like this – now it just makes me sad and reminds me to really check my motives and doctrine before teaching or speaking anywhere.
These are the spiritual offspring of Kenneth Hagin – Rhema Bible College – where Casey learned the prosperity/word of faith gospel. What are they saying – the devil can’t touch this? Can’t touch them? Well yes, he certainly has!
MY goodness what has the church come to? It’ all about entertainment no substance!
Wow that was a migraine maker! I only watched about 20 seconds of one of the videos.
Personally I think we should let Jesus do the “face to face” stuff with Satan. I also believe the Bible says that too. (I just can’t remember the verses right now.)
Thanks for posting the videos anyway. What I saw was an eye-opener!
Oh, Mkayla you shouldn’t have said that! Next thing we’ll be watching these grannys teaching victory and power over the devil by rapping the old MC Hammer song “You Can’t Touch This”.
These churches love the stage. They love their productions, plays, Christmas pagents; they love dancing on stage, choreography, lights, cameras, tech shows, media presentations, programs, rock bands, and talent shows. I’ve been to the Casey Treat affiliated churches. Wowsers! The last time we attended one in Surrey, the dancing was so overpowering that we thought we were in a nightclub. We were finally appalled by the starlets and their glitzy performances. Finally!
Let me repeat an instruction from our Lord:
John 8:
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
If we knew the Word, we would know that tithing is the Law and we are no longer under the law. We are still giving but it is by the Spirit and it is the expression of a greatful heart. …But if you want to remain under the law…
Romans 10:5
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Just had another memory about a discussion I had with a Pentecostal senior pastor of a large church that I attended. It was back when I was struggling with legalism vs the new covenant. He unashamedly told me that he knew that tithing was the old covenant but he said, with a grin, that if he didn’t preach tithing…no one would give. Ha. Is it right to do evil that good might result?
I agree that these rap things were silly–even stupid. But I certainly hope that stupid behavior doesn’t disqualify one from being a Christian. If that’s so, we’re all in pretty big trouble, whether we do granny raps in church or not. Next to God’s wisdom and omniscience, the difference in stupidity levels between someone who does a granny rap in church and someone who wears sensible shoes and engages in staid but poor, uninspired exegesis must hardly register. For that matter, next to God’s wisdom, the difference in stupidity levels between one who does granny raps and one who does brilliant exegesis probably barely registers. I think we need to cut each other a little slack.
Paul…you said, we need to cut each other a little slack…
I say, yes, as long as we are following Christ and his word. These people are in love with themselves. That is my point. They are worldlings following all the passions of the flesh. Is it right that we do evil that good might result? Following our self motivated, self important and selfish amitions is not of God…it is of the world. Are they saved? Well, what’s the criterion? Jesus taught…John 8:31 If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
How can you have real faith without the word?
If these people love the world rather than the word (one letter difference) then, are they disciples of Christ?
…cutting each other slack is not the problem. The problem is the letter “l” in “word…
pay attention to the heart; what is it in love with…the word or the world
Good word, Carolyn. I read this this week in the Phillips translation. I think it piggybacks on what you were saying: “Never give your hearts to this world or to any of the things in it. A man cannot love the Father and love the world at the same time. For the whole world system, based as it is on men’s primitive desires, their greedy ambitions and the glamour of all that they think splendid, is not drived from the Father at all, but from the world itself.” I John 2:15-16
Thank you for your comments. Please bear in mind that I wasn’t trying to suggest that these folks were doing something good: I think what they’re doing is harmlessly silly at best, and stupid and giving the wrong impression of Christianity at worst.
What I was responding to was the idea, presented in an earlier posting above, that the very fact that these people were doing this meant they were not Christians. That, to me, is an overreaction–and one that’s possibly dangerous theologically.
It’s very possible that, however much you and I might cringe at what these people are doing, they have the best of intentions. I can see a rationale for this sort of thing in the idea that we live in a culture saturated by media, in which people learn and process information and ideas through the visual, and in which, if you want to get anyone’s attention, one way to do that might be to draw that attention by using the forms of of media with which we’re primarily competing. So it’s possible that these folks are actually trying very hard to reach people with the gospel in a media-saturated culture. I would disagree with the use of these kinds of tactics, but there’s a difference between employing a well-intentioned but ineffective strategy and an intentional rejection of the gospel. Stupidity does not automatically equal apostasy. And if it did, as was my point in the previous post, we’d all be in just as much trouble as the granny rap ladies, regardless of what we did to worship and preach. It does not follow logically, therefore, to conclude _only_ from the fact that these folks did a rap in church that they must necessarily be narcissistic, self-worshipping, idolatrous apostates. Nor does the fact that we disagree with them, in itself, make them heretics. They could simply be mistaken. And, since we’re not infallible ourselves, it would be irresponsible not to listen to their arguments under the realization that it’s not impossible that we might be mistaken as well.
So before I drew any kind of conclusion about this, I’d want to actually communicate with these people in (at least in email or something, but preferably in person, which is the scripturally-mandated approach to any brother or sister who might be doing something wrong in any case) and just ask questions, trying to determine things like:
1. What is their rationale for doing these things? What do they think they’re trying to accomplish (whether we agree with the tactics or not)? How well do their arguments hold up logically and scripturally?
2. What else happened in this service? Was the rap the centerpiece, or was it designed as a humorous lead-in to something more serious? Was it followed by a sermon or lesson that fed the mind as well as the eyes and ears? This single video does not rule out the possibility that the word you say they’re ignoring was, in fact, preached in this same service. It doesn’t prove that it was, either, but that’s exactly my point: we can’t make that kind of determination based on this single piece of evidence.
3. What does this church look like on the larger scale? What other kinds of teaching go on? What kinds of involvement with the community? What kinds of “fruit” is the community bearing?
I would also suggest that, any time I have the impulse to “go after” something I don’t like in others, I also have a responsibility to be taking a hard look at myself at the same time. Knowing that I’m not infallible, could I be in the wrong, at least partially? Am I proceeding in a Christlike manner? How can I ensure that my response to the situation will itself bear good fruit and be a positive witness to the Gospel?
If, after all this, I still think there’s something seriously wrong, my work still wouldn’t be done, because at that point I’d have to figure out the best way to respond, and to do that I’d have to know more about the nature of the problem. And I can see more than one possibility, leading to more than one potential response. For instance:
Perhaps their intentions are entirely pure and they really are trying to reach people with the gospel. In that case, what can I do to encourage them to find better ways of doing so?
Perhaps they themselves have been deceived into mistaking a “worldly” philosophy for the gospel. In that case, what can I do to help them refocus on the reality?
There is, of course, the possibility that the whole church is some kind of scam: that these folks really are maliciously using the guise of Christianity and the vehicle of entertainment to fill their pockets. But the question there is how I can _prove_ that that really is the case. If I can, then it’s time to shake the dust from my sandals and try to warn others away–but even then my warning should be based on copious evidence and substantive logic, and not simply on a single video clip.
Why? Because if I make a public accusation of apostasy based only on a single video, I’m at extreme risk of becoming the very enemy I’m trying to fight. Notice what they’re accused of here: using a presentation of a provocative media presentation to draw attention to themselves rather than to the gospel. But–and here I’ll offer what I hope is a gentle but pointed suggestion–isn’t posting that video on the internet and making loud, public accusations about it based only on that single scrap of evidence exactly the same thing, using a provocative media presentation to draw attention more to my own voice and ideas than to the gospel of Christ?
I hope that doesn’t sound nasty or argumentative–I don’t mean it to be. But I really do think that when it comes to accusations that people who call themselves Christians are really not only not real Christians but scheisters to boot, we need to proceed very, very carefully, prayerfully, and thoughtfully. Is posting a single video on the internet and lambasting it really careful, prayerful, and thoughtful enough to support an accusation of apostasy in a truly biblical fashion?
@ Paul, these “grannies” literally shook their rumps at the audience, or “congregation”. Such an act is ungodly, not funny, and demeaning to women.
Their actions are deliberately designed to entertain, just the way the crusifixtions and
executions of the original believers was to entertain the Romans. There’s nothing entertaining or funny about the gospel or scriptures. A countless number of people have been martyred from the Prophets of the Old Testament to the Apostles and even today. Those women and the everyone like them are serving the devil as they are making a joke out of the Holy Scriptures which are from God. Ask yourself this Paul, “what would the Apostle Peter or the Apostel Paul say regarding this type of behavour? Would they be so “understanding” of this blatant mockery of the Holy Scriptures? The scriptures were written in blood, and espescially the New Teatament as without the shedding of the Precious Blood of out Lord and Saviour Jesus, there would be no New Teatament! So where is the respect and reverence due to the scriptures in that video? Those people have no fear of The Lord and no respect for His Holy Word!
Hello Dave:
Once again, let me say that I wasn’t condoning the behavior or suggesting that it was a good idea. What I was responding to, specifically, was the accusation leveled at them in an earlier comment, which asserted that the fact that these folks were doing this meant that they were not Christians. My point was not that what they were doing was ok, but that it was extremely dangerous theologically to base an accusation of apostasy on the evidence of this single video clip. It might be stupid, it might be mistaken, it might be a really bad idea, it might be inappropriate to a worship setting–but, as I mentioned in a previous comment, if being stupid, mistaken, and having bad ideas causes one to lose his/her salvation, we’re all in pretty big trouble, at least if we’re honest with ourselves.
Moreover, the fact that the gospel is a serious thing and that people have been martyred for it does not mean that Christians must necessarily be stolid and dour in their behavior all the time. Christianity is also about the joy that comes from Christs’ forgiveness and the indwelling of the holy spirit, and we’re also admonished to “make a joyful noise.” Recall that King David danced nearly naked in front of the Ark of the Covenant as an expression of his joy at its return. Would it be responsible to conclude from that that the writer of so many psalms of praise had “no fear of the Lord and no respect for His Holy Word?” (I wonder: if he were alive today and did something like that, would a video of him show up on this blog, with all sorts of people commenting that he was obviously an apostate with no respect for God?)
Yes, there is call for respect and reverence in the scriptures, but there is also call for joy and dancing. It would be a mistake, I think, to emphasize only one of those qualities and ignore the other.
Once again, I do not say this to condone the behavior–only to suggest that it is scripturally and theologically irresponsible to accuse these people of apostasy on the basis of this single action. I agree that the rap thing was entirely inappropriate; I do not agree that impropriety necessarily indicates apostasy.
Hello Paul, This is what the scriptures says regarding our behaviour as followers of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus:
“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” John 15: 16 – 19 KJV
“Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him” I John 2:15 KJV
“Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I [am] the LORD your God.” Leveticus 20:7 KJV
“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” I Peter 1:13 – 16 KJV
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” Matthew 5:48 KJV
Given that the members of the organization in the video above and others find “nothing wrong” with bringing the world into the church and using the filth of the world as an example for new believers to follow, can that honestly be compared to the the genine joy David felt when he danced before the Ark of the Covenant? Now, applying those scriptures, and remember the scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35), can you honestly say that diliberate emulation of the world, escpecially using the worldly music to teach false doctrines is not apostacy? This is not an isolated example as there’s the other video where blatant copyright violation is and the use of the Bee Gees disco song “Staying Alive” is OK because it’s supposedly teaching the Word of God. Is this not apostacy as described in the scriptures?
“Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
II Timothy 2: 14 – 19 KJV
Paul, I was deeply entrenched in these word faith “centres of worship” and I am very familiar with their teachings and their fruit. I do not state something like this lightly, only by the light of the word. If you need to “look into their teachings” on a personal level, searching the Scriptures to see if these things are so…that is reasonable.
…as for me…I’ve already done that.
From experience, I am sure these people are not walking in the light as He is in the light. One day, if they decide to pick up a Bible, they might actually “hear” what the Spirit is saying and repent and turn from their sins…but their faith today, is, strictly speaking, doing religion in the flesh.
I do not make any of my accusations on the basis of hearsay. I clearly recognize that their teachings are doctrines of demons because they lead away from the Saviour to themselves. And I assure you that I and many others who post here, do not draw our conclusions from the posting of one video.
Our final and only authority is the Word of God. We have been led by the Spirit out of these cults that preach a different gospel, into a pure Christianity that is simply, “Christ and him crucified”. No, indeed, these people are not Christians…they teach and live another gospel, which is really no gospel at all!
Just wanted to add one more comment…in judging these non Christian cults and their followers…I speak generally about the cult population and not specifically about individuals.
It is obvious that there are “wheat among the tares”. There are those still in these cults of Word Faith and NAR, etc. that are confused by the difference between the teachings that they are hearing and the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the same with any cult, including newer versions of Catholic mysticism, CT, Emergent and Purpose Driven. There are real believers who have not recognized the error of the teaching which they have embraced or been brain washed into, since childhood.
But for those with a mind for wisdom and a heart for truth, there will be a call by the Spirit out of Babylon and they will be separated unto our Lord…just as I and many others have been.
In hopes of helping those who are just escaping from error, it is important that we aren’t vague about the differences between error and truth; that we call a spade a spade. There is no overlapping of truth and error. Why are we afraid of the black and white version of Truth?
That is where weak leaders have compromised the message of the gospel to accommodate and please men. We should rather please God and speak the truth with no uncertainty. It is a plain message and worthy of “no compromise”.