Rick Warren Tweets Joyce Meyer

Because of something Christine Pack, of Sola Sisters blog, said on Facebook, I started browsing through Rick Warren’s Twitter feed. I found a tweet that is extremely curious. Here it is:

“We’ll never grow to spiritual maturity until we learn to do what’s right even when it feels wrong” JMeyers about 11 hours ago via web Retweeted by 100+ people

He’s quoting Joyce Meyer, for anyone who doesn’t know.

Warren also posted this on Facebook, which you can read by clicking here.

The context in which Warren quotes Meyer is in a “word of wisdom” fashion. Given that fact, I’m wondering if Rick Warren agrees with Meyer’s doctrine. Is he an advocate for the prosperity gospel that Meyer teaches? Does he believe God wants you to be healthy, wealthy, and wise… and nothing else? Is Warren asking us to believe that Joyce Meyer has the wisdom of God and we should be listening to her?

Reading through some of the comments left by his followers on Facebook, you get the picture loud and clear… with the exception of a couple of posts, Joyce Meyer is A-okay to Warren and to most of his followers. Here are some of the comments:

Yeah! My Mama Joyce rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was just thinking about this and here it was! I watched Joyce tonight and it sure hit home with me.

Dave Van House: all this praise is not for Joyce Ganapao (although we are sure she’s a wonderful person) but for JOYCE MEYER, the wonderful author of pastor Rick’s quote. ;-)

i watch her alll the time.

gotta love that Joyce!

You’re supposed to be a Calvinist, Why are you quoting a neo-pentacostal heretic like Joyce Meyer

could you not have quoted some one other than her? lost some credibility on that one!!

I think this makes it pretty clear how some of Warren’s followers feel about Meyer. Although, I like the last two quotes the best… except for the part about Rick Warren being a Calvanist…NOT!

When I quote from someone, I do it because I agree with that person, and because the quote I’m posting is a statement that I myself would make. So, by quoting them, it’s like the person is actually speaking for me by proxy. Wouldn’t you think it strange if you log onto my blog one day and saw me quote someone like Todd Bentley or Bob Jones, even if what they said happened to be true? Absolutely not! Quoting them is the same as agreeing with them.

The point is, in the context of theology, you should be careful who you quote. Giving someone the compliment of quoting them is the same as an endorsement. If I know someone is teaching false doctrine, I’m never going to quote them – especially in the capacity that Rick Warren is quoting Joyce Meyer.

By quoting Meyer, Rick Warren is giving her teaching a huge “thumbs up.”

What do you think? Bad judgment or par for the course? (I know the answer to that.)

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72 Responses to Rick Warren Tweets Joyce Meyer

  1. Great post, Chrystal. It’s so important we make sure those we are quoting are fundamentally sound, otherwise we are endorsing their teaching, ignorantly or not, which could seriously lead someone astray. I wrote about this at length last month asking the question, “is there ever a time when heretics should be quoted?”: http://airo-cross.blogspot.com/2010/09/quoting-heretics.html

  2. So, let me get this straight. Even if you quote the truth, if the person speaking it has some theological deficiencies, that’s still wrong. Ergo, the only people we can quote must be 100% right on all theology, correct? And, pray tell, who might that be?

  3. Melchizedek says:

    And if I quote Martin Luther even though I don’t agree with children’s baptism? What do you feel about Mark Brown that has the “journey deeper into gods word” blog and holds the Bible page on facebook – he is really good, but never goes into doctrine, only stays close to the Bible text – he is an anglican, but I’ve never so far seen anything he says that I disagree with. Should I quote him or not…? I’m confused on this one, to be quite honest.

  4. Craig says:

    Well, since Rick Warren is himself not theologically sound it’s not so surprising on one level (Warren’s furthering UN Millennium Development, and, by extension, NWO goals through his own PEACE plan and by endorsing Tony Blair’s Faith Foundation {Warren’s on the board} which is overtly ecumenical and itself pusing UN MDGs). However, Joyce Meyer is overtly Word of Faith believing that Jesus went to hell and died spiritually. Two trees with different doctrinal bad fruit.

  5. Craig says:

    No one has 100% perfect doctrine; however, since Joyce Meyer’s doctrine is one in which her “Jesus” went to hell and died spiritually, then her “Jesus” is not one who can provide True Salvation. To quote from Meyer would therefore be no better than quoting the “golden rule” by a Mahatma Ghandi.

  6. John Hlavac says:

    Joyce Meyer is A OK don’t worry about it, I have listen to her for years. She is bearing a lot of fruit.

  7. Eli says:

    Par for the course I’d say.

  8. Eli says:

    @ Billy – I think you’re missing the point. If we quote some one (who isn’t doctrinally sound) speaking some truth, it gives the outward appearance that we endorse everything they speak. If they say something that we happen to agree with or is biblical, then we can just say it ourselves, and not quote them. As for being 100% right on each tiny little detail, I don’t think any of us are, but there are some foundational doctrines in scripture that are easy to understand when studied in context. These foundational doctrines and beliefs can not be compromised on for any reason. Upon these doctrines, yes we CAN be 100% correct.

  9. Bill C says:

    Billy, there are clear distinctions between rank heresies and theological differences.
    An orthodox believer may quote a Lutheran, Reformed or even a Calvary Chapel pastor
    because each of them presents the gospel as accurately as they know it. Joyce Meyer twists and perverts the gospel. This should be obvious unless you have been exposed to relativism and deconstructionism in your educational background. If that is not the case and you have all your critical faculties then I would submit that you are being dishonest with you comment and simply trying to muddy the waters.

  10. Sincerely says:

    I once had a pastor whom called upon me to repair the home computer. While working on it the wife and daughter came into the family room to rush and turn on Oprah. I said to him “don’t you have a problem with that?” And he says “I feel it is important for us to keep up with what’s happening in the world.” And 13 years later where is his church? Purpose driven, 40 days of community, Ash Wednesday services, youth parties, video sermons, prayer labyrinths. That very gradual slippery slope leads straight on down.

    But that’s what happens. They feel that you can get truth from anyone. Just ignore what you don’t like, and preach the parts you do like. Wise? No. I’d call it being unequally yoked.

  11. @Eli,
    You said, “If they say something that we happen to agree with or is biblical, then we can just say it ourselves, and not quote them.” So you’re OK with plaigarism?

    You said, “If we quote some one (who isn’t doctrinally sound) speaking some truth, it gives the outward appearance that we endorse everything they speak.” That’s only because you live in a theological world where if one person is wrong on one thing, he is a either a heretic or an apostate.

    Lines over soteriology need to be drawn distinctly and clearly, with no wiggle room. Lines over secondary theological matters are probably necessary for fellowship. But lines over tertiary matters are senseless. Yet, in today’s blogoshphere, anyone who isn’t in perfect harmony with another on every jot and tittle of theology is vilified.

  12. Ken Silva says:

    Billy,

    *tsk tsk* We’ve been through this. The issue is: Why risk sending your sheep to look for food in a garbage dump?

    Sure, while some of it may be still edible, much of it will, at best, make you sick.

    Are we supposed to believe that Rick Warren couldn’t find that truth from a better source?

    Stay tuned. In days to come you’re going to see much more evidence or the toxic dominionism he’s, at best, endorsing.

  13. Ken Silva says:

    “Yet, in today’s blogoshphere, anyone who isn’t in perfect harmony with another on every jot and tittle of theology is vilified.”

    A bit hyperbolic, eh. “Anyone” who isn’t…”every jot and tittle”?

  14. Teresa says:

    Here is Joyce Meyer teaching that man are little gods
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4eVu2oxP8

    @ Billy I would consider this rank heresy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The world love this woman, non-believers love this woman, even so called believers love this woman. She preaches a man-centered doctrine, which is another gospel. She is your classical word of faith teacher, who is just not as obvious as others.
    Even Benny Hinn gets it right once in a while, but he is still a false prophets and a wolf.

    “Discernment is not simply a matter of telling the difference between what is right and wrong; rather it is telling the difference between right and almost right.” – Charles Spurgeon

  15. Stan says:

    In my view, if Warren cites Meyer, it follows his agenda he has been working on for years and as he outlined at Davos in ’08 to bring the church together to help solve the great ills of mankind. He wants to appropriate the church of Jesus from its spiritual mission for his political/social ends. He has a head large enough for Mt Rushmore.

    It is important to him that he is seen as a hands-across-the-aisle kind of guy to lead the forces of righteousness against the curses of humanity. I’d be surprised if Warren was actually sympathetic to Charismatics or even WOF people, but he must recognize how large a contingent of professing believers they comprise. He needs them for his larger agenda of bringing all churches, Jews and Muslims together to combat social ills like ethnic prejudice/intolerance, disease and poverty. If he is willing to include the currently broken-off branches of orthodox Jews and the heathen Muslims, what’s to stop him from endorsing Joyce Meyer or any others in the professing Christian community?

    Stan

  16. Teresa says:

    If their popular “their wrong” if the world loves them “their compromisers”

  17. Sorry I’ve taken so long to reply….been at a Joyce Meyer conference. Just kidding. It was Rick Warren :)

    @Ken,
    Good to hear from you. “A bit hyperbolic…” Well, maybe, but then that’s the way I roll. But seriously, Ken, use that strong mind of yours and remember what comes from many blogs…. Most of what comes from them are not against those who preach another gospel, but against those who don’t agree with Calvinism or dispensationalism, or whatever. I know that doesn’t characterize you, but you do repost many who do.

    @Teresa,
    I listened to the clip and read the Scripture references. So what’s your beef? Joyce clearly says that we aren’t God, but she does quote Ps. 82, which says that God called Israelites “gods.” JM certainly made a mountain out of a molehill, and probably got the whole thing out of context, but again, what’s your beef with what she said in the clip you posted? I’m not saying that I agree with all her teaching, for I don’t. But you brought this up – what’s the problem with what she said?

    @all,
    I’m kinda surprised that you are surprised that Rick Warren quotes Joyce Meyer. Don’t most of you believe both are kooks? Why should it surprise you that one quotes the other?

  18. @Teresa
    You said “If their popular ‘their wrong’ if the world loves them ‘their compromisers.’” How is this reconciled with 1 Tim. 3.7, where Paul said that elders were to have a good reputation outside the church?

  19. Sincerely says:

    If they are popular, they likely follow (or provide) the broad way that leads to destruction. Narrow is the way and few are they that find it – does NOT describe purpose driven fad in any way, shape or form.

  20. Bud Press says:

    Concerning Joyce Meyer and others within the Word of Faith camp, there is a BIG difference between “listening” to her than hearing what she says. Those who listen to and approve of false teachers fail to hear what they teach. And, it is what they teach that will damn a soul to eternal separation from God in hell.

    All who claim to be Christian are under the Scriptural commands to test all things and try the spirits (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1). Those who fail to heed the commands of Scripture will be deceived by false teachers, and are destined to be conditioned and manipulated into believing what false teachers say over and above what God says in His written word.

    That said, here are some links to articles about Joyce Meyer. As you read them, hear what the authors are saying:

    The Changing Views of Joyce Meyer
    http://www.pfo.org/wan-star.htm

    The Truth Twisting and Tall Tales of Joyce Meyer
    http://www.pfo.org/preacher.htm

    God’s Superstars
    http://www.pfo.org/suprstar.htm

    A Lot Top Say About Nothing?
    http://www.pfo.org/nothing.htm

    Can You Be Deceived? Why People Are Duped and How Not to Be
    http://www.pfo.org/deceived.htm

    Bud Press

  21. Ruitje says:

    Joyce Meyer is Word of Faith and I think Rick Warren has the same heresy but he packed it up in his Purpose Drive-model.

    I see today many false teachings that are influenced by Word of Faith, even the prophetic movement.

    This is on Elijahlist today, it shows more and more the real face of Word of Faith: it is the same as The Secret (occult).

    Read this article from Elijahlist, from Cindy Trimm: “The Properties of Thought: You Become What You Think”

    http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/9273

    She is talking about ‘The law of attraction’ but that is what The Secret (occult new age!) is all about! She uses that sentence in her article: ‘The law of attraction’! So now they are speaking openly about their source: satan.

    We as ‘Bereans’ knew that all the time that Word of Faith is pure heresy, but now they just openly show their real face to everyone.

    Trimm writes: In Genesis 11, the people thought to themselves that they could build a tower to Heaven, and because they saw this tower in their minds they were able to build it. God stopped them by causing confusion and making it impossible for them to communicate, because the tower became an idol to them. However, this story still tells of the power of our thoughts: “Nothing they have imagined they can do will be impossible for them” (Genesis 11:6 AMP).
    Man begins with a concept in his mind, something he believes he is able to accomplish; he joins his will and intellect to his imagination, and then the power of expectation sees it through. Every great achievement begins as a thought in the imagination of a person. Every thought is birthed in the spirit. Achievement, therefore, is a spiritual process.

    Well if she knew what was really going on there in Genesis 11, she wouldn’t use this as an example for us to use our thoughts that way. What really was going on was that men wanted to be like God, wanted to climb up to heaven (just like satan wanted, Isaiah 14). But by using this part from Genesis 11 Trimm shows us that she is not a real christian and believer. She is a wolf in sheepsclothing.

    And the Word of Faith heresy (and Law of Attraction) wants the same: climb up to heaven and be like God and be able to have the same power as God to create and use ‘words of faith’ as a tool in the wrong way.

  22. Ruitje says:

    This was the quote from Trimm (I forget to use ‘italic’)

    Trimm writes: In Genesis 11, the people thought to themselves that they could build a tower to Heaven, and because they saw this tower in their minds they were able to build it. God stopped them by causing confusion and making it impossible for them to communicate, because the tower became an idol to them. However, this story still tells of the power of our thoughts: “Nothing they have imagined they can do will be impossible for them” (Genesis 11:6 AMP).
    Man begins with a concept in his mind, something he believes he is able to accomplish; he joins his will and intellect to his imagination, and then the power of expectation sees it through. Every great achievement begins as a thought in the imagination of a person. Every thought is birthed in the spirit. Achievement, therefore, is a spiritual process.

  23. Ruitje says:

    Found this article from Aprising Ministries (Ken Silva). Very interesting…

    http://apprising.org/2010/10/20/rick-warren-laverne-adams-and-cindy-trimm/

  24. Ken Silva says:

    Billy,

    You say, “you do repost many who do” quiblle with Rick Warren over “Calvinism or dispensationalism.” Sincerely, with all due respect, you’d have a real hard time hard time proving that.

    For example, Chris Rosebrough totally destroyed Warren’s pelagian DG 2010 self-love sermon; and he did it Biblically.

    I’ve personally shown Warren has opened the door for Word Faith and NAR teachings e.g. in http://apprising.org/2010/10/28/rick-warren-laverne-adams-and-chuck-pierces-global-spheres/

    And in http://apprising.org/2010/10/03/decade-of-destiny-with-rick-warren/

    The reason is, they hold to dominionism, as do the guys like Warren and his mentor “Apostle” Peter Wagner, all corrupted by Fuller Seminary’s Church Growth skubalon.

  25. Teresa says:

    @ Billy

    Listen to the video again. Word of Faith teachers teach that we are little gods, little messiah ect…… Listen to this again because she is talking out both sides of her mouth.
    Now I am not saying your God but………..cats have cats… dogs have dogs… and so forth.
    My beef is this; we are not little gods, we are not little messiahs or nothing of the sort. Psalms 82 or John 10 in no way makes a statement that believers are to consider themselves gods, with a little g. The term “ye are gods” was spoken to the corrupt rules of Israel.

    To declare oneself a god is the sin of the Antichrist. 2 Thes. 2
    @ Billy What is so hard for you to understand about my statement. The “world” non believers love these people just as much as so called believers. Joyce Meyer preaches another gospel, another Jesus. She teaches that Jesus died spiritually. They do not believe that the atonement took place on the cross.
    1 Tim 3:7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. NASB
    My pastor is well liked because he lives by example. He lives the same way in private, that he does in public. He has a good reputation with the community.
    However, he does preach against sin. We had a young couple at our church who were living together, not married. He confronted their sin, in private, and they are no longer there because they got offended and left.

    My pastor does not compromise the bible or biblical truths. He does not preach extra-biblical revelations. He does not take things out of context, he does not deviate from the word of God.

    Billy, I somehow believe you know the truth of this mess. My question for you What is your beef and you put it………

  26. Teresa says:

    @Billy my last statement did not make sense. Let me try this again.
    I some believe you know the truth by your statements but somehow feel a need to defend JM.

    As far as my comment on 1 Tim 3: 7 I would like to add a couple of things. Pastors, deacons and overseers must “have a good report” must have a “good reputation” inside and outside the church because their reputation should be in keeping with one who governs the church and represents the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    With all the scandals in the Word of Faith movement alone, violates this scripture.

  27. Teresa says:

    Billy I messed up again. I will try this one more time.
    I somehow believe you know the truth by your statements but for some reason you feel need to justify JM.
    @ Billy You said this JM certainly made a mountain out of a molehill, and probably got the whole thing out of context, but again, what’s your beef with what she said in the clip you posted? I’m not saying that I agree with all her teaching, for I don’t. But you brought this up – what’s the problem with what she said?

    Read your statement because I believe you know the answer to that question by yourself.
    My beef is with all the Word of Faith teachers and what they teach about “Jesus Christ” was enough for me to flee.

    I am done have a wonderful day Billy and God bless you with your journey.

  28. Teresa says:

    I used the example of what Joyce M said in her video. I am not saying you are God but…………….. She used the example of cows have cow kind…. Cerflo Dollar used the cats have cats…. dogs have dogs and so forth.
    This man does a really good job at refuting the “little gods doctrine”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LzMRDkwBn8&feature=related

  29. David North says:

    Let’s bring consider this in a biblical comparison:

    Our King, Saul, has ordered us as his troops to be present as he offers up a sacrifice because the ordained prophet of God, Samuel, is delayed in coming before a crucial battle campaign. Should we obey our orders, support him prayerfully or publicly declare him a heretic and refuse to participate?

    Later, this same king seeks the life of a fellow faithful and God-fearing officer and national hero, David and orders us to hunt him and to capture him or shoot him on sight. Some of us also heard the prophet Samuel tell Saul that he has had the kingdom taken and given to another and we have heard David is God’s choice for the throne. Should we as servants of the nation put down the king and wait for David to claim his rightful place? Should we protest and publicly incite Israel to reject Saul so David can be placed on the throne as God intends?

    In time we learn David has indeed received the throne God offered him but he has lied, disobeyed the Lord, commited adultery and murder and abused his office. Should we arrest him? Depose him? Kill him? pray for God to punish and judge him? Follow his son who has taken the throne claiming he is it’s righful holder and side against David in alliegeance to him?

    I can go on with David’s son, Solomon and dozens of other examples but the point is in pursuit of an “all or nothing” viewpoint you can make a decision that sounds right but is wrong.

    God uses and has used many imperfect people–some to their later benefit and others in ways that end in a greater judgement. before we say, “You must follow this one” or “You can not follow that one” we must really look at the entire picture and not simply a single doctrinal point.

    I recently lost a friend while discussing Glen Beck’s Washington mall rally. I emphasized that regardless of who he was, some points he made were admirable. I also explained that I completely understood the danger of merging Mormon and Christian philosophies but that I had no problelm politically as a citizen accepting some of the points made at this meeting while being wary as a Christian of any more personal philosophies he might express. I also explained that any heretical union at this rally could not surpass much of the heresy and compromise already in churches–essentially stating that he was no better or worse than many who claim to represent Christ.

    But in this person’s mind, this was a “make or break” issue..Glen Beck and all he said or did had to be roundly refuted by discerning Christians and a failure to do so indicated that such a person was corrupted or compromising in their faith to God. When I stated that was no my conclusion, our conversation ended and has remained ended after several years of friendship and fellowship.

    Those who defend Saul will see David as a rebellious usurper. Those who defend David will see Saul as a wicked king who has rejected God. David was wise enough to leave room for the Lord to judge and not to bring judgment by his own hand from his own understanding. He was not stupid or naive but he was patient and feared the Lord enough to simply take the responsibilities he had and to and to let God decide who should be king and who was righteous or forgiven.

    Absolutely test one another, point to error and question unclear doctrine. Even go on to clearly and specifically point out heresy and heretics who preach another gospel.

    But isn’t there room after pointing to the most blunt of errors to withold our hands and wait to see what God and time will reveal? must we zealously seek every error conceivable in every person we see becasue “they might be wrong” or they “might be insincere”?

    When I quoted Ecclesiates 7:18 in my other post it refers to fearing God but not losing one truth in favor of another. Another rendering of it is, “not to go to extremes”.

    Can Joyce Meyer be wrong but not the antichrist. Can she have some sound doctrine while we also recognize some error? Is it a possibility in our thinking that God could actually choose to use her?

    I’ve talked with a Baptist friend who spent over an hour explaining to me that Billy Graham was a through-and-through heretic and tool of satan and nothing he has ever said should be heeded or considered. Would you agree with that?

    It simply comes down to, “Does the message of the person clearly interfere with others seeing the truth of who Jesus is?”.

    Phillipians 1:15-18
    15 It’s true that some are preaching out of jealousy and rivalry. But others preach about Christ with pure motives. 16 They preach because they love me, for they know I have been appointed to defend the Good News. 17 Those others do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ. They preach with selfish ambition, not sincerely, intending to make my chains more painful to me. 18 But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.

  30. james says:

    Speaking of Joyce Meyer, I wrote her a email of concern asking how one can be a leader in a church that denies the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Trinity, Hell, and be employed with her Ministry. I have received no reply. What a real shame. This individual works in the TV/video department. Please notice at http://www.cpointechurch.com/aboutus/default.aspx you will notice this individual under leaders. You will also notice on this sites resource page Spirit and Truth Fellowship International. This is perhaps the largest off-shoot of The Way International. You will notice Center Point Church’s statement of faith is similar to that of Spirit and Truth Fellowship International. http://www.stfonline.org/about/beliefs.htm
    Why is this individual a leader in this anti-Deity of Christ church, and employed with Joyce Meyer Ministries?

  31. james says:

    Speaking of Rick Warren, I receive no reply from him, nor Pastor Horwedel. requesting that they remove an anti-Trinitarian site from their article “Ten websites every pastor should know. http://12ddm.blogspot.com/2010/04/ten-websites-every-pastor-should-know.html This site Biblestudy.org has confused many Christians. Thinking it to be an evangelical site, because it is sometimes listed along Bible.org which is an evangelical site. Biblestudy.org is an Armstrong off-shoot. It is listed among 237 off-shoots of the late Herbert W. Armstrong’s World Wide church of God. http://www.livingcog.com/237offshoots.htm My concern is that since a well known pastor is recommending Biblestudy.org when one vists this site and their recommended links, they will be reading literature that vehemently assails the Trinity, and other teachings of the Christian church. You can read an sample of the attacks on the Trinity by these off-shoots at http://www.zoomnet.net/~bbratt/trinity.html Many of these off-shoots radio programs have now been cancelled from evangelical radio stations. Notice Ronald L Dart. His program Born To Win has now ben cancelled from 24 Christian stations due to his unorthodox teachings. I pray that pastor Warren will recommend another site, an evangelical one, not one that opposes the faith once delivered to the saints.

  32. Craig says:

    David North,

    You wrote:

    God uses and has used many imperfect people–some to their later benefit and others in ways that end in a greater judgement. before we say, “You must follow this one” or “You can not follow that one” we must really look at the entire picture and not simply a single doctrinal point.

    There is not merely a “single doctrinal point” off with regard to Warren or Meyer. There are many. The “entire picture” is more like a panorama.

    One thing to consider in your comparison of King David and Saul: neither of these had the Holy Spirit indwelling.

    Also, you wrote:

    Can Joyce Meyer be wrong but not the antichrist. Can she have some sound doctrine while we also recognize some error? Is it a possibility in our thinking that God could actually choose to use her?

    Joyce Meyer preaches a ‘different Jesus’ and a ‘different Gospel;’ so, she does not offer a saving Gospel message. She’s not THE antichrist; but, her message is antichrist by definition. Sure, it’s possible that God can use her; but, it would be despite herself and her teachings. I myself accepted Jesus Christ while watching Rod Parsley on TBN knowing next to nothing about his beliefs. But, Parsley did give what I understood to be the Gospel message (I can’t say I remember it now exactly to determine if it was truly a genuine preaching of the Gospel as it was over 10 years ago); and, I gave my heart to the Lord. It’s the Holy Spirit who convicts, not man. I never “followed” Parsley as many follow their pet teachers.

  33. Stan says:

    Ken thanks for the link to your articles on Warren’s association with Fuller Theological and Chuck Pierce of the NAR. So, he has very strong ties to that whole camp.

  34. Brian Godley says:

    One of the issues with someone like Warren quoting someone like Meyer, is the influence they have over so many people. If I quote Meyer, (I wouldn’t) my influence would be limited, but I would have some influence over my listeners/followers due to me being in a leadership position in my church. By my quoting Meyer with no caveat or explanation, some of those who receive my post could easily take that as an endorsement of her teachings. How much more with someone like Warren, or Piper, or Driscoll, or….. . Unless they agree with/endorse all of their teachings (at least generally), it is IRRESPONSIBLE of them to be quoting in this way. They ARE responsible in a greater or lesser way for how it appears and what their followers do with that apparent endorsement.

  35. Darrel says:

    David North:
    Your post seems reasonable on the surface, but a closer read shows that sin of the heretical type is being swept under the rug and anyone who speaks in the name of the Lord Jesus is allowed to say what they will no matter how it matches up with scripture. You presuppose that anyone who calls heresy what it is is jumping the gun and should sit back and do nothing. Gee, I’ll bet there are tons of verses to back that assertion. In quoting Phillipians at the last were you giving JM & RW a pass because they use verses from the Bible to support their views? I hope not. And to answer your last question as it would pretain to JM & RW: neither one of them glorifies the Savior in any way, whether by word or deed. It is impossible for them to speak to the glory of Jesus in one breath and to demean and ridicule Him with the next (James 3:11&12).

    Billy Graham, by his own words, is a flaming heretic of the universalist type. Glenn Beck= lost mormon. How can he possibly direct a believer to the Lord Jesus. If a Christian listens to enough of his rantings they may begin to embrace dominionism. (Hint: that’s why he is doing it, not to help the USA, but draw believers away from Christ).

  36. Eli says:

    @ Billy – You said: You said, “If they say something that we happen to agree with or is biblical, then we can just say it ourselves, and not quote them.” So you’re OK with plaigarism?

    What has that to do with Plaigarism??? Rick Warren or Joyce Meyer can say the sky is blue. If I say, “hey the sky is really blue today”, do you consider that plagerism?? Again, you are completely missing the point. And splitting hairs.

  37. Carolyn says:

    At what point does the gospel become a different gospel? When there is a smidgeon of error, a large amount of error or 100% error?

    At what point does a Christian become a legalist? When there are a few laws, many laws or 100% law?

    At what point does Billy Graham become an infidel? When he twists the truth (ie. Ecumenism) a bit, greatly or 100%?

    Well, let me ask one more question:

    At what point does a person become a Christian? When he believes that Christ is a small part of his daily life, when Christ is a large part of his success or when Christ’s life is 100% of his life?

    You see, now all the other questions answer themselves. Because if you answered that Christ must be the standard of measurement for your Christianity…then you understand grace and truth complement each other and that Christ really is enough.

  38. Carolyn says:

    Matthew 21
    Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

    When you choose the Truth of Christ, then the grace of Christ swings into action to help us reach our destination. When you choose anything else, like Purpose Driven, self sacrificing, psyco babble, or JM/sayings of the wise, truisms or anything where self is doing the work, and Christ is standing by…then your destination is in your own hands and Christ’s sufficiency/grace has also been put aside.
    We need Christ’s life, not just for entry into the Kingdom, but also for sanctification, in every day life.

    Romans 8:
    3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

  39. Denise says:

    Well, given what people are willing to put up with, why not quote Meyer? Truth in everything, right? I see this mentality with so many who claim the 5 Solas, even though the people they like go against them, much less against Scripture. I guess if you are wrong on the Gospel, but right on something else, give a thumbs up!

    That makes Jesus want to vomit. Me too.

  40. Denise says:

    Btw, this along with Warren’s approval and seeking after LaVeren Adams recently, proves yet again, that Warren does NOT believe in men-only as pastors. Piper said Warren told him he does believe in men-only leadership.

  41. Rev's Kate & Rich M. says:

    I admire Joyce Meyer’s recovery from sexual abuse by her father which she has been talking about on her recent daily programs; her experiences are helping many women and men also, to recover from this dreadful sin made against them.

    My heart goes out to anyone who has had to submit to disgusting and heinous acts of predatory sexual crimes.

    For her bravery in being honest I’m positive many are grateful. I commend her and her family. K

  42. Grant says:

    Let’s take a time out for this and then right back to our message:

  43. @ Teresa,
    Thanks for the tone of your challenges to me. I do appreciate them. And no, this is not a sarcastic comment…I really do appreciate your tone.

    @ Eli,
    If you quote someone, you need to give them credit. If someone recounts an old truth in a new package, you need to give them credit. Ken said, “Find somebody else who said it.” That I can agree with. Plagiarism I cannot agree with.

  44. @ Ken,
    Mike Ratliff doesn’t take people to task over not being Calvinist?

  45. Eli says:

    Rev Kate – Joyce’s experience with sexual abuse is one of the things that (when I used to follow her) endeared her to me. As a 9 year old, I survived (physically and mentally, thanks be to God!) a vicious vilolent sexual attack at the hands of a neighbor, and never told a soul until i was grown (he said if i talked, he’d come back and kill me). It took many years for me to get over it. And I did it with only God’s help, never sought professional help. Joyce has my respect in that aspect. but i have to seperate that from the fact that she is WoF, and teaches another gospel. What she teaches has nothing to do with what happened to her. I had a hard time, at first, seperating the two. I understand where she comes from.

  46. Teresa says:

    I believe that if we do not have the essentials for salvation “Doctrines of Jesus Christ” as layed out in the scriptures “correct” then we do not have the true God. I believe there are lots of false conversions sitting in church every Sunday, we think they are saved but there has been no true heart change, no fruit.
    Back in 2008 “after” the Lakeland revival shut down, Benny Hinn rebuked Todd Bentley and the revival, using Matt. 24. Now remember this was after the fact.
    Benny Hinn nailed the teaching from Matt 24. I will give him credit for nailing it that time. However, just because Benny Hinn nailed it this time in no way shape or form makes him correct doctrinally or correct all the time or saying that I agree with him, ever. Just because he gets it right once in a while, would not give me cause to quote him. He is a false teacher and a false prophets by his own doing and because the Scriptures say so.
    We can argue till the cows come home about doctrine, but what does the bible say. The doctrines of Jesus Christ is what matters, the essentials for salvation. We must take Line upon line, precept upon precept. Rightly dividing the word of truth. Discerning between right and almost right by the word of God.

    Having said all that, the bible”God’s Word” is very clear on what we as believer’s are to do concerning false teachers, false prophets and so forth. Here are some of those Scriptures, I have posted these before elsewhere.

    (1) Do the scriptures encourage us to reprove and rebuke false teachers. Yes
    2 Timothy 4:2-3
    (2) Did Peter warn us that false teachers would arise? Yes
    2 Peter 2:1
    (3) Does the bible warn us that many will follow false teachers? Yes
    2 Peter 2:2
    (4) Does the bible warn us that false teachers will exploit people with stories they have made up? Yes
    2 Peter 2:3
    (5) Were false teachers present within the early church and are they present today? Yes
    Act 20:28-30
    (6) Do false teachers interpretation come from man or God? Man
    2 Perter 1:20-21
    (7) Do false teachers bring swift destruction upon themselves? YES
    2 Peter 2:1
    (8) Are false teachers always readily apparent? No
    Matt. 7:15
    (9) False teachers are presumptuous and self-willed. YES
    2 Peter 2:10
    (10) Do false teachers use flattering word that deceive simple heart? Yes
    Romans 16:18
    (11) Do the scriptures warn us to stay away from false teachers? Yes
    Romans 16:17
    (12) Will few people or many be deceived by false teachers. Many
    Matt. 24:11
    (13) Do false teacher love money? Yes
    Titus 1:10-11
    (14) False teachers believe that gain is godliness. Yes
    1 Timothy 6:5
    (15) Do false teachers profess to be believers? Yes
    Titus 1:16
    (16) Can false teachers preform miracles? Yes
    Deut. 13:1-2
    (17) Does the bible speak of a place for false teachers? Yes, Hell
    Revelations 21:8
    (18) People will not want to hear false prophets. “False”
    Is. 30:9-10
    (19) Those who study the word of God carefully should recognize the doctrine of false teachers. YES
    2 Tim. 2:15
    (20) Teachers who “fail” to teach Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection “according to the scriptures are false teachers. Yes
    Galatians 1:9
    (21) Does the bible command us to try and test the spirits to make sure they are of God. Yes
    1 John 4:1
    (22) Believing scriptures in you mind is the way to get saved. False
    Romans 10:10
    (23) Speaking in tongues is a part of salvation. NO
    Romans 10:9-10
    (24) True born again Christian do not sin. False
    1 John 1:10
    (25) Doctrines that are man-made and not planted by the heavenly father will be rooted up. Yes
    Matt 15:13-15
    (26) What will happens to those who add to or take away from the word of God.
    Revelations 22: 18-19

  47. Carolyn says:

    @David North – yes I can learn from people like Warren, Meyer and Graham…I can learn that “results and relationships” (Paul Proctor’s famous article) became too important to them and although warned by many of their colleagues more than once, more than twice, they continued to travel the broad road of numbers and respectability. If I want to learn to walk the narrow road, I learn that by listening to Christ’s words…and obeying them.
    Luke 6:26
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.
    Matthew 7:13
    [ The Narrow and Wide Gates ] “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

    I just don’t think that many of us believe that only few of us will find the narrow way.

    @Grant – I can even learn something from Bro Franklin, I learned some new dance moves- especially liked the backward somersault….wow!

  48. Nicole says:

    Thanks Kate for saying this. Sometimes we “overlook” some of the good that is actually happening for others that are involved in these groups.

    I have watched and read several blogs lately where there are actually people coming out of these ministries. Oh and there are multitudes that are not. There is mixture in most all of them but we do have to believe that these people that truly are wanting the Lord to hear them and He IS TRULY THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOWS THEIR inner wounds and pleads and heartaches. He will give those that truly want HIM revelation and also deliverance out of the deceptions that are going on. There are so many that have had emotional baggage and also that have entered into deception not realizing that it is deception .

    I am talking from experience. I had no idea that “the christian realm” was so full of pollution , but my heart was so on fire for HIS LOVE and FOR HIS DESIRES and for my Lord and Savior to show me HIM and I was willing to lay down all my pains, sorrows, everything of self to HIM. (am I there yet, ? ) no but each day is a new day and one that I am learning that even our kids, husbands, and our grown kids, friends etc.etc. have to be given to the Lord. We have to let go and Joyce, though she has her faults as many do and she has also fallen in many ways (that we see) she is doing something to help others. Is it all of what the Lord wants her to do? I have no idea, Is she sinning? I truly don’t know and if she is, it truly is not our business. It something that is between her and God. Some of this stuff I read , we are “nit picking” and our eyes are more on finding little things to big things in these people.

    I spoke of being involved in B. Hinn for 3 yrs. before that I was healed by our Lord, that led me to finding all I could about the healing ministries and yes, word of faith was one of them. But the Lord walked me thru it TILL I had enough FAITH in HIM to truly see what scams , shams, and deceit many are preaching. See, what people don’t realize is — some of these people might be involved in these ministries to truly “learn, and also repent, find healing , faith in HIM and also to see the workings of these ministries as the Lord leads them.
    Did I have things that I needed to renounce and get delivered from? Yep, but they are now testimonies that can help others. Am I still laying self down? Yep, but in each step of the way, the Lord is merciful and loving and showing me HIS LOVE and then it is teaching me to TRUST in HIM and ONLY HIM.

    Often we look at these people and the ministries and those that have “come out of them” have a choice, they can find fault or they can pray for those to find the truths and have the Lord protect them and bring them to people that have the heart and mind of Christ .
    Too many of these blogs are talking from flesh. I am sorry but it is true. I want to see everyone freed, but the fact is, those that have idols in their hearts won’t be unless they run to the only one that can save them ———-THE LORD. Laying everything and everyone down and it costs. It hurts and it costs and one has to be truthful to themselves. — God already knows , but too many fear “the unknown”

    So, yes, I think that Joyce Meyer has “faults and maybe unrepented sins” but as long as the Lord keeps her alive and continues to use her , as w/ all the rest of these people, WE truly do not know if God is using these people for “refining others, putting them into the fires and letting them grow and run to HIM” ——when it hurts bad enough, we either run to HIM (our Lord) or we harden our hearts more.

    There is a need for the truth and for warning people. But after that, is it really really necessary to continue harping on it??? We need to know the truth but is it really really necessary to keep pounding it in???
    I have just been on a website that is showing John Crowder videos and exposing the deceit and evil. But now they (the website) is dealing w/ the demons in the attacks and it is not a pretty sight. And the moderator keeps deleting things from bloggers. And the demon / in the person, has called him on it. This has been happening for weeks and weeks and weeks(from other articles) and it can give a bad name to this website as he has not confessed his wrong doings. Yet, people are learning from this website and maybe others will be set free from this /these demonic videos.

    My encounter w/ them was , the Lord heard my pleads and my heart and walked us thru them (in the fires w/o a stinch ) but it cost , because I had to leave friends and everything behind and the words that they spoke that could send chills up ones backs. — I had to give it all to the Lord. The one common denomintor in all these — is that those that have idols or new age or something unrepented — they have been handed over to the spirits of evil. God can deliver them and will — for the ones that have HIS HEART . I have found that “warning them” (those that are /have a veil over their eyes) well the Kundalini spirit is very evil and will do what ever it takes to prove that it is right. Those that don’t want to renounce all of this stuff will only go deeper.

    So, back to Joyce, I respect all that she is doing and I will not judge the other stuff, because we really don’t know who all she can help and if they run to HIM , then it is worth it.
    I used to massage too many raped, molested and cancer patients to prostitutes to victims of assult and abuse to the attnys, and pro sports and everyone in between. Many christians and many non christians. the non christians were so willing to have faith and trust in the Lord, more than many, of the christians that I worked on. I learned that their is truly unbelief and lack of faith to give our Father , Son and Holy Spirit ALL the credit HE IS Do.

    Sorry , that I wrote so much and I am sorry if I got off the main topic thread. I have walked in the new age and I see the harm and have been delivered. There is harm even in the reading the horoscopes, but how many christians read the daily “prophetic” words that come down that are nothing but horoscopes but w/ a “christiannized name to it” ?????
    I have so much to reveal but and if it is ever time, and the Lord leads I will. Many are being deceived by just not knowing .

    Blessings to all,
    Nicole.

    • Nicole, you said: “So, back to Joyce, I respect all that she is doing and I will not judge the other stuff, because we really don’t know who all she can help and if they run to HIM , then it is worth it.”

      Joyce Meyer has taught that Jesus had to be born again in Hell. That doctrine is blasphemous. Do you believe she can do good for the Kingdom when she teaches such blasphemy?

  49. Teresa says:

    @Billy Edwards….. God bless you and you are welcome.
    I was concerned that I sounded sarcastic to you and I am so glad that you did not take it that way. I was concerned that I did not get my point across to you, hope I did. When it comes to deception and false teachers. I forget that my words and tone must always glorify’s the LORD, I am truly relieved and thank you.

    @Grant
    Oh, my goodness.

  50. Nicole says:

    One last comment—————– and I hope we all heed it. Me included!!!

    Sometimes God allows us to see these things for HIS PURPOSES. Sometimes they are for teaching us, sometimes it is for ‘blowing the whistle” on the big things that these leaders are doing and sometimes it is “to test us” on how we respond.

    Sometimes our mouths overload us. We forget that God doesn’t really want our opinions , What He wants is for us to humble ourselves before HIM. Jesus didn’t shoot his mouth off . We have a tendancy to have an opinion for everyone and everything. Testimonies and our walks and our learning from what we walked in can teach many many others, but I have found that I enjoy the websites that “don’t condemn over and over and over again” the heresies of these ministries. There were those same kind of people in the days of Jesus and the Apostles and I don’t see anywhere , where Jesus lamblasts them over and over again. I think He and others said to not have anything to do w / them and to walk away from them. (I might be corrected there and if I am wrong I appologize)
    But the fact is, sometimes some of these kinds of websites are good when we are trying to TEACH others not to get involved because of the facts. Like for instance teaching on what NAR (latter rain, and Joels army) is about, what Emergent Church is about and even giving a heads up on who is involved, and all that is needed and necessary and those that really don’t want to be involved or they need to become aware of it , then they have a choice to make to stay away or to get involved. (that is up to them) Then there are other times that I get on a blog and I feel like I am reading their dirty mail. Kinda like what I call the Scuz sheet/ National Enquirer. Once reading it all the way thru, you know the scoop on every little detail and once is ENOUGH. Then and only then when you see that they have repented renounced, asked for forgiveness to those they have hurt, THEN that would be new NEWS.

    Most people (christians I am talking about) are not looking into their own lives but critisizing others before they address their own laundry and they might not be going before the Lord and truly asking whether on bended knee or just in a simple prayer, FATHER show me my own faults, my own sins, my own prejeduces, my own idols, Show me and allow me to repent and give them all to you” Sometimes we would rather focus on a ministry that is doing wrong and forgetting the good that could or might come of it (I posted that earlier) Yes, we all can learn, but we all can learn about ourselves also.

    Jesus ONLY said what He heard His Father to say. (maybe there is a deeper meaning there – one I have not learned) We really don’t know what all Jesus said, but we do know what He taught and did say that is written in the bible. He also said”: FORGIVE THEM LORD for they know not what they are doing” I am one that has added (and forgive them for they know not what they are saying) I dealt w/ too many people that had been wounded , hurt and had many body aches and pains and the majority of the healings took place when people asked for forgiveness and would “shed” their pain and it allowed them to seek the Lord NOT ME but the Lord as they healed . ————-

    I know I am preaching and I am sorry but I get so frustrated at times because we sometimes (and it is flesh) don’t focus on the good . Does it really really matter about some of these comments???? I can see a few that are very fleshy. Please folks lets look w/in ourselves and pray for the others. And yes, when we truly see more deceptions that the LORD WANTS us to point out, then so be it. Point it out. Sometimes we just like to post and I have been wondering lately if some of it is truly of God??? (my own thoughts on this)

    I am not harping on those that write and truly are trying to set the captives free and teaching them. But sometimes we go over the line and enter into the grey and then the red. ———— These are my observations as I have been asking the Lord to purge me from things and websites that are not of HIM. / comments / I don’t comment too often on any blogs. It is few and far between .

    May the Lord truly open everyones eyes that really wants to purge all of self and only want HIM. ——It takes time but it is worth it. !!!!

    Nicole

  51. Nicole says:

    I know all about her blasphamy of Jesus. JESUS knows the blashamy that she has said. ——-now I know about it, back then I didn’t but I am not condemning her, I condemn what she has said about the Lord not her helping people. We are to inform the people. Sometimes our comments can hurt more than help. It can also push people more and more away from them getting helped and healed.

    DO I think she can help people————you bet I do.!!!! I have witnesses clients of mine in the past that were abused sexually and molested and some lesbians that I used Joyce’s testimonies (long before I knew what all she said about the Lord) — see the Lord didn’t reveal all that to me during those days I was using her tapes and cds. He used me to help others to come to HIM by handing out her testimonies . I found out about her and her life etc.etc. just 4 yrs. ago. So, see, God used me, to bring others to HIM by way of her.

    YET, these women, came to the Lord, through the wounds that they had and the emotional debries that they let go of and YES the LORD , not I healed them. They are the testimonies .
    God can use anyone HE CHOOSES. I don’t agree w/ their tactics and all the things they say and do and the lies etc.etc. but somehow these people have been set free. I have documented client sheets that I watched client after client being set free from different things and many of them were in sexual abuse cases and Joyce Meyers was a helping factor. I can’t agree w/ the other things she says but I can respect her testimony and wanting to help those that have been wounded in the same way.

  52. Teresa says:

    @Nicole

    We either serve the GOD of the bible or…… we serve the God that someone tell us about or………we serve the God of our own imaginations.

    Joyce Meyer does not believe that atonement took place on the cross. She believes that Jesus had to go to hell and had to be born again, not the God of the Bible. Just as Chrystal said that is blasphemous.

    I would like to ask you one simple question, if you will answer? How can the true God or Jesus of the bible use Joyce Meyer when she preaches another Jesus and another gospel. Please answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Just because she share’s her past and she incorporates scriptures to her practical teachings for life’s issue’s, does not mean that God uses her.

    Phineas Parkhurst Quimby and Mary Baker Eddie did the same thing. New Thought and Christian Science teachings mixed with scriptures “minus” the blood of Jesus. These two people are a “piece of the root of where the Word of Faith teachings came from.
    If you do not know the history please check out these names right here .
    “Phineas Parkhurst Quimby” “Mary Baker Eddie” ” E W Kenyon” and “Kenneth Hagin Sr.”

    If you know the history behind this movement “the root” and “the fruit” then why are you eating IT. That is all God Bless

  53. Nicole says:

    my answer to Teresa is ——–how did God / the Lord Jesus use me while I was in new age and ONLY because I had to learn the coarses to get me licensed after I took all the other coarses. ——HE KNEW MY HEART and MY CRY FOR HIM.

    Teresa. I know it is hard for many to believe , but the Lord can use a “sinner” and one that can and has gone astray.
    When HE OPENED my eyes totally to all the deception, I moved out of all of it and got delievered from it. But I am telling you, I massaged over 4,000 people , every walk of life , and the compassion and love of the Lord and many times HIS PRESENCE and HEALING was upon the people and to this day, many of them are still walking w/ Christ.

    Like I said before, We all need to watch what we say and our opinions must sometimes be non verbal on blogs.

    Does Joyce still say these things????Does she have the same believes I don’t know. That is for God to judge her not I. I don’t follow her. But I can tell you this, I have watched in B. Hinn some get healed as they “on bended knees” going to the Lord and repenting and asking the Lord to heal them. I have watched people in my past office get healed. It was of the Lord . God brings us thru different ways and different places for HIS PURPOSES not ours.

    Why should any of us “enjoy” watching or reading anything that is belittling our Lord? We shouldn’t and we just need to report the info and leave “comments’ of the flesh out of it. PERIOD.

    I know many might not understand this, but I do know the healing hands of my Lord Jesus Christ and HIS LOVE for people that have a heart for HIM that have been wounded. I don’t limit how God uses people. But yes, there can be another Jesus and another Holy Spirit as we are seeing in the deceptions of these ministries.

    I am sure that there are those that have been in many ministries that “now have their eyes opened” but many of them had their first tastings in ministries that they didn’t know the history of the one speaking and yet the Lord shielded them and guided them through it till HE unveiled their eyes.

    I hope this answers your question.

    Once again, I don’t agree w/ her lies nor her living but I do know that there have been those that are actually saved now because of a simple testimony and then the Lord doing the rest.

    • Nicole,

      What you’re saying is basically that yeah, Joyce Meyer lies, and she blasphemes, but her message still has the power to save. The Bible says it is the gospel that has the power to save, not blasphemy, not lies.

  54. Teresa says:

    @ Nicole Please calm down, I am just trying to have a conversation with you.

    You said When HE OPENED my eyes totally to all the deception, I moved out of all of it and got delivered from it. But I am telling you, I massaged over 4,000 people , every walk of life , and the compassion and love of the Lord and many times HIS PRESENCE and HEALING was upon the people and to this day, many of them are still walking w/ Christ.

    He opened your eyes “totally” to what? The deception of the New Age or the deception of what you are still seem to be a part of, which lines up with New Age teachings. I am not trying to offend you but you are truly talking out both sides of your mouth. You appear to have an axe to grind with someone. God can use whom “he ” choses to use but you missed my point; Judging by the fruit of what she teaches; Joyce Meyer preaches another gospel and another Jesus. Her Jesus is not the gospel, her Jesus can not save, her Jesus is another Jesus. Not everyone who says LORD! LORD!……..We are clearly warned by God in his word to stay away from false teacher or false ministers of the gospel.
    I posted these scriptures in above post. This is not my opinion by God’s written warnings for us all to see.

    (1) Do the scriptures encourage us to reprove and rebuke false teachers. Yes
    2 Timothy 4:2-3
    (2) Did Peter warn us that false teachers would arise? Yes
    2 Peter 2:1
    (3) Does the bible warn us that many will follow false teachers? Yes
    2 Peter 2:2
    (4) Does the bible warn us that false teachers will exploit people with stories they have made up? Yes
    2 Peter 2:3
    (5) Were false teachers present within the early church and are they present today? Yes
    Act 20:28-30
    (6) Do false teachers interpretation come from man or God? Man
    2 Perter 1:20-21
    (7) Do false teachers bring swift destruction upon themselves? YES
    2 Peter 2:1
    (8) Are false teachers always readily apparent? No
    Matt. 7:15
    (9) False teachers are presumptuous and self-willed. YES
    2 Peter 2:10
    (10) Do false teachers use flattering word that deceive simple heart? Yes
    Romans 16:18
    (11) Do the scriptures warn us to stay away from false teachers? Yes
    Romans 16:17
    (12) Will few people or many be deceived by false teachers. Many
    Matt. 24:11
    (13) Do false teacher love money? Yes
    Titus 1:10-11
    (14) False teachers believe that gain is godliness. Yes
    1 Timothy 6:5
    (15) Do false teachers profess to be believers? Yes
    Titus 1:16
    (16) Can false teachers preform miracles? Yes
    Deut. 13:1-2
    (17) Does the bible speak of a place for false teachers? Yes, Hell
    Revelations 21:8
    (18) People will not want to hear false prophets. “False”
    Is. 30:9-10
    (19) Those who study the word of God carefully should recognize the doctrine of false teachers. YES
    2 Tim. 2:15
    (20) Teachers who “fail” to teach Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection “according to the scriptures are false teachers. Yes
    Galatians 1:9
    (21) Does the bible command us to try and test the spirits to make sure they are of God. Yes
    1 John 4:1
    (22) Believing scriptures in you mind is the way to get saved. False
    Romans 10:10
    (23) Speaking in tongues is a part of salvation. NO
    Romans 10:9-10
    (24) True born again Christian do not sin. False
    1 John 1:10
    (25) Doctrines that are man-made and not planted by the heavenly father will be rooted up. Yes
    Matt 15:13-15
    (26) What will happens to those who add to or take away from the word of God.
    Revelations 22: 18-19

    Nicole, I am so glad you walked out of the New age.

    There is a wonderful lady by the name of Sarah Leslie who came out of the New Age movement. She said when God saved her and started going to church it was only to find out that the very thing God delivered her from “New Age teachings” had infiltrated the church. She does a wonderful teaching about this very subject. I can find that for you if you would like to hear that audio.

    Nicole, I pray that you do not think I am harping on you, I am concerned for you. Pray that the LORD opens your eyes and heart to the truth of the gospel and his word.

  55. Nicole says:

    Chrystal,

    Let me make one thing very clear and simple.
    I have been too long winded trying to explain “the Lord and what He did during my 15 yrs. of ministry/business. I apolgize and have gone to the Lord about “my longwindedness” I don’t really need to explain to anyone .

    But very simply———-The Lord used me in many ways that I did not understand many many times. I didn’t know about all these “healing ministries< what Word of faith was< I didn't know about most all these people that I now know about.

    I was doing this for 15 yrs.before I closed my office and the last 6 yrs. He has been taking me a whole different route in learning . I used the tools the Lord had me use during that time. Books that I surely would not use now adays, to tapes that I surely would not promote today along w/ the people.

    So, w/ that being said, I know what the Lord did for these people and the rest is not important . I know how Joyce Meyers is now and what she is doing/saying. Yet, I do believe that it is God's judgement call first not the peoples. Many are in these ministries and some will be set free like my client and other clients. Some will not be.-Many probably won't be. But that is not what we focus on.

    I often have wondered why sometimes we "hear" only some things in a whole huge sermon . We don't catch anything else, but sometimes one sentence that the Pastor or teacher might say. I have found out , that one sentence was what the Lord had a person in that auditorium for.

    Do you know, I heard about Joyce Meyer, thru a client of mine. This woman was a client I had been massaging for years both her and her husband. Her husband was unsaved and she was too. One day , she was flipping channels and she heard the tale end of Joyce talking about her smoking ordeal. My client HEARD JUST HER TESTIMONY of that and started putting the vcr on at 5:30 in the morning and then started ordering tapes from her ministry.

    My client ended up not only stopping the pack a day smoking, but we started praying together and she soon became focused on her terrrible drinking habit of a two a day rum and coke habit , we prayed about that and then she lost focus on that as we talked about the Lord. She then stopped her cussing .. All of this was because Joyce Meyer talked about her hard time of having to stop smoking and the easy time her husband had.

    My client eventually led her husband and son to the Lord and they all got baptized in the Father , Son , and Holy Spirit. She has a good solid base of who the Father is now. NOT because of Joyce but because of Jesus.

    Christians are harder to work w/. Believe me, they have more tunnel vision than non christians – or non church goers. Not a judgement call, just observation from working on them for so many years.

    I saw this, often w/ unbelievers. I was able to use only testimonies of certain things , like the molestation etc.etc. Many times it was the power of the Lord that showed me what to say to these people.

    Sometimes we just can't focus on the words of the bible and hand them a website to a apolgetics team. Sometimes we have to work w/ the people and come to them on their level and bring the Lord in a little at a time.
    During a cancer scare of this woman, it was me she came to , for prayer and for the Lord to heal her as she repented of her sins. She was cancer free .

    These are the little testimonies that can go a long way .

    I hope you understand more now. I didn't need to explain but I wanted to explain. Jesus works in mysterious ways and can use anyone HE CHOOSES. HE is the only one that knows the heart .

    By the way, I know about Osteen also. I just don't need to "enjoy" seeing more info about his demonic stuff. And I do respect John MacArthur. I do hope the video helps many. And they can help others. —

    Be blessed,
    Nicole

  56. Carolyn says:

    Nicole, you are confusing issues with the Truth…
    you’re not “preaching” as you said you were, you are berating the sheep for not living up to YOUR standards; what you think we should be doing, what we should be saying, how we should be saying it, who we should be saying it to and what we should be thinking about false teachers…while at the same time you are singing the praises of an obviously false teacher! God does not need a false teacher to bring Truth…He is Truth and he leads us into Truth IN SPITE OF false teachers. And healings are no test for truth. Satan performs many miracles to advance his agenda.
    As for repetition…advertisers recognize that you need to see and hear something at least 9 times to remember it. It’s those commercials that we see over and over that get lodged in our brain. Same goes for the Word.
    This is a great site for speaking truth. Time will tell how many “heard” the gospel as it is presented over and over by so many bloggers in their own personable ways!
    love you all, Chrystal, keep bloggin, sister!

    @Teresa…so many good comments as usual! thanks for such positive Truth!

  57. Elieen says:

    Chrystal and Carolyn on your last two comments….AMEN! I was actually a little heart broken when i came to the truth about Joyce. I liked her THAT MUCH. but a little leaven goes a long way. She blasphemies, and teaches another gospel, therefore she’s out in my book. And Nichole, since only God knows our hearts, how can any of be sure that anyone has been “truly saved” through Joyce Meyers. all the “good” she has done is subjective.

  58. Rev's Kate & Rich M. says:

    Hey Eli! Big admission on your part and very brave, but I believe you will find comfort here and certainly no judgment–God forbid. And yes Jesus Christ is the answer.

    Yeah, Ms Joyce is that blasted WOF movement, too bad, but, well, as I will reiterate: she was and is honest in her sexual abuse experiences and that in itself is a tremendous help for many suffering that particularly horrible trauma.

    Talk to you soon,
    K

  59. Teresa says:

    @ Carolyn
    Right back at ya! I appreciate your comments as well and the truths you speak.

  60. Rev's Kate & Rich M. says:

    Thank God for this forum!

    Today as I write this, Oprah Winfrey is telecasting a follow-up program to actor/director Tyler Perry’s (“Medea”character) in October; his sexual abuse admission which was perpetrated against him as a child and young man.

    Two-hundred men have come forward to reveal the 1 in 6 ratio of sexual abuse towards men in particular– the show airs again, also, this evening in the NY Metro area on channel 55 at 7:00pm or 8:00, I believe.

    Whichever, I am sure the program can be viewd online. The content is graphic and immensely disturbing and not for the faint of heart, I warn you. But please watch it.

    I believe, and very strongly, that we as Christian men and women are to become keenly aware as to these heinous crimes that are being committed by so-called men and women of God and by, to our thinking, the “guy/girl next door”; or Grandpa and Grandma, aunts and uncles and siblings and parents.

    The tragedy may seem an insurmountable horror, but I promise, the grace of our God supercedes the sin, and recovery is possible.

    I thank you, Chrystal for allowing me to post this.

    God bless you and the men and women on this site. K

  61. Mickey Merrie says:

    Pssst… Meyers is a harry tick, so is Warren. But really, Calvin is dead, Jesus is alive! Want to see a change in all this mularky? Quote the One Who lives MORE and the one’s who are dead LESS! Honestly folks in heaven they only celebrate JESUS! Calvin is just like everyone else there!… Enough with the I am of Paul, I am of Cephas…or Calvin. Fix the foundation under YOU, while you still can. But don’t stop exposing error wherever it is found. The Calvan badge plays well in your franchise, I know, but isn’t it time to move on? The BEST you can say about Calvin, or anyone is they taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  62. Walt Franklin says:

    You might want to look at Joyce Meyer’s website under FAQ concerning WOF and Prosperity Gospel. Also, she left the atonement in Hell theology years ago. Her last few books have been solid even talking about subjects like spiritual discipline. I’m not sure who she is talking to or who is influencing her but she seems to be going toward a more orthodox doctrine. Interesting to watch the change.

  63. Mickey Merrie says:

    When I read spiritual discipline, I think of the Emergent Church and eastern mysticism, Walt. Are you aware of these? Not at all biblical…see desert fathers.
    Also the angels of light and their friends in the pulpit, when I hear somebody heading in a more “orthodox doctrine,” I see the coil and hear the hiss.
    “Prophets and teachers and for that matter preachers”, who are not preaching the gospel one given , but heading there are flat in error and should not be teaching anyone. Certainly no believer in Christ Jesus should or would be following them, because they would be in the Word in context.
    Walt, if you are in agreement with her, even as you see a more orthodox teaching, I would tell you to run, and be in the Word, lead by the Holy Spirit and studying the Word in context. For example “By His stripes we are healed has nothing to do with your sickness, and everything to do with your Salvation….or…Whatever you ask for in his Name He will give you, right?…Read the rest, when you pray in accordance to His will. What is the Father’s will? The pre-emminence of Jesus, not my wishes. So when I pray, I am praying for the tools and resources to do His Will.

  64. Rev's Kate & Rich M. says:

    Interesting info, Walt. I hope so, as I think Joyce Meyer can be very influential in her application of everyday practical solutions to very perplexing and sometimes destructive problems and just plain common sense, which we all can use; I watch her show often and find her intelligent and “street smart”–there’s nothing wrong with that, as we all need some smarts.

    I do not want to debate at any point her WOF connection–just get the darn job done and get people healthy and thinking straight! K

  65. ROAR_IMADINOSAUR says:

    LOL – Logic fail.

    Just because someone may not be theologically sound, or even Christian, they can still speak truth. After all, we may be good, but there is still a black dot of sin in us, and we may be consumed with sin, but there is still good and truth inside us.

  66. Walt Franklin says:

    Thanks Mickey. I was just stating my surprise at where Joyce Meyer seems to be going. I thought her newest book, Power Thoughts, would be a WOF manifesto but to my amazement it is not. In fact this is what she writes in the introduction,
    “Let me be clear that I am not saying that we can think into existence anything that we want. That view of the power of thoughts is a form of humanism, which is an ungodly philosophy.” I’ve got to say, I am floored that a WOF teacher would ever say something like that. My hope is that she is being influenced in the right way because with her following she could have a great positive influence on the Kingdom. I would humbly suggest that you and I and everyone pray for her instead of running from someone who sounds like they are beginning to embrace truth. She is solid on the basics of the faith like salvation, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, etc. She needs to get rid of the WOF/Prosperity weeds as it appears she may be doing. It will be a great day if she does. Remember Jesus told His disciples if they are not against us, they are with us.
    Walt

  67. Stan says:

    @ Walt: Joyce Meyer lives extravagantly off her ministry. Even if she really is rethinking earlier doctrines, until she relinquishes the wealth she has accumulated from ministry, I will not trust that these doctrinal changes, however orthodox, mean the slightest bit of biblical repentance. Her ministry wealth is enough to mark her as a ravenous predator of the church. Until she brings forth fruit in keeping with repentance from covetousness and making merchandise of believers, count me totally unconvinced.
    Stan

  68. Mickey Merrie says:

    Walt;
    Read the last part of my post again, please. She is nowhere near that Truth, and neither are her followers, thus she becomes the judgement/reward for those who follow her. When wet rid of the books and television, we will be amazed at how much time we will have to read the Word and study it as we are commanded. Mine is gone for years now. I don’t see a dozen hours of it a month now, including sports.
    Does she still hold to the “we are little gods” doctrine still? Jesus was talking about the Jewish leaders in the Old Testiment known as the judges, which of course is an O.T. book.
    I’ve been where you are at, Walt, now come to where I am, and see if you will not see more clearly

  69. Rev's Kate & Rich M. says:

    Boys! Come to a resolution and wrap this thing up–yeah, she has the remains of the WOF junk–I’m hearing a different tune, though–I’m going to listen to more and come to a conclusion and I’m sure in a reasonable time frame: I can pick up on foolishness pretty fast, I’ll have to trust God to keep me up on the discernment–so, I’ve got to give her a break and be fair–that’s my opinion. I want to hear it all. K

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