I was reading this article in the Examiner, written by Allen Bethea, which recounts Todd Bentley’s disgraceful departure from Lakeland, Florida. He seemed to have most of his facts right until the last paragraph. This is what it said:
“There continues to be enormous controversy surrounding Todd Bentley and his ministry. Many Christian leaders take offense his doctrine, his dress, his physical appearance, his tattoos, his practice of faith healing, his divorce and his subsequent remarriage. Lest we forget, Christians were given a ministry of reconciliation. First we participate in the reconciliation of all mankind to God through Christ. Second, we are called to restore our brothers and sisters in the faith who have fallen. Bentley is going through this restoration process in the hands of men who care for him and want to see him restored and in ministry again. If we truly believe the words of Jesus, we can forgive any sin which He forgives – and He forgives all but one. If God can forgive, who are we to withhold our forgiveness from anyone.”
Wow. He wrote that whole article to tell us Todd Bentley’s dismal history, and then in the last paragraph shames those of us who reject Bentley as a minister of the gospel. He knows there are those who take offense at Bentley’s doctrine. Big deal. He knows his divorce and remarriage is a problem. So what? Our rejection of Bentley does not hinge on those things, though they do carry weight.
Bethea can and does see the problems Todd Bentley presents in the church, but then brushes those things aside and tells us to forgive him as if those are the only reasons we refuse to accept him or his doctrine. It doesn’t seem to occur to Bethea that we have more reasons than Bentley’s adultery to motivate us. We stand firmly on the timeless truth of Scripture…Bentley perverts it. Bentley is a hypercharismatic who is tightly ensconced the hyper-heretical New Apostolic Reformation. He is a mystic who claims to have frequent angelic encounters and trips to Heaven. He kicks old ladies in the face with his biker boot and kicks stage IV colon cancer patients in the stomach (couldn’t leave that out). He never misses an opportunity to shill his CD’s, DVD’s, and books that explains how you too can reach out and snap up the hypercharismatic ecstatic glory. He teaches Dominion theology. He gives extra-biblical revelation in the form of false prophecies. And that’s just for starters!
Discerning Christians knew all of this long before the adultery issue came to light, and we rejected him then. We didn’t need his adulterous relationship with his current wife to give us a reason.
Bethea says we need to forgive Bentley. Forgive him for what? Sinning? Look, if someone is truly repentant when they have sinned, I would never dream of withholding forgiveness; but, are we expected to forgive someone who is preaching false doctrine? Are we to wink at doctrines of demons for the sake of unity? How can we unify with a false teacher? How can we forgive someone whose teachings subvert the way of truth and leads people down a path of destruction? God and Satan cannot join hands in agreement, and truth and error cannot be united.
I’m sure Bethea is a nice man, but he seems to be confused about the real matter at hand. Biblical Christians aren’t unloving and unforgiving. We live a crucified life and pursue righteousness, and we also demand sound Biblical doctrine because we know that it’s only the truth of the gospel that saves and sanctifies.
So, no, I won’t forgive Todd Bentley when he teaches such dangerous false doctrine. Just had to make sure that was clear.
The problem here is not forgiveness vs. unforgiveness. It’s sad that people write this stuff but a lot of Christians are confused about the diffeence between an individual and their ministry. The individual can be forgiven of course…but the ministry office is another matter. Putting someone back in a minstry office after such a short period of time with Bently’s history of poor judgement and questionable methods as well as if it is really the Holy Spirit minsitering “through” him all the time, calls for him staying out of the ministry for a much longer period IMO. But this isn’t all Bently’s doing. The real culprits here are Rick Joyner and other NAR leaders that keep supporting this guy (Bently).
Totally agree with u in what u wrote. Too much emphasis is placed on forgiving the sinner in the church and not enough on true repentance. The bible does say in Luke 17 3 to 6 “if your Brother sins rebuke him and if he repents forgive” .No where in the bible does it say to forgive an unrepentant sinner ,especially one who is a wolf in sheeps clothing, who was brought in by satan to destroy the flock. What will be next , christians demanding we all forgive satan for what he has done.
When one continues to display the character of satan and not the character of God, we are told to expel him/her and not have anything to do with them.
Christians these days wanna whitewash all sins, using forgiveness as the key to get away with what they are doing that defames our Holy God and his Righteous Name.
And more to the point , does God himself forgive such a person as Bentley and the rest of these wolves. Because if God himself holds them all accountable, and guilty .then why would God expect and demand us who are his true followers to forgive such a man and others like him.
God himself only forgives a truly repentant person , and one who is walking in humble obedience to his will and way.
as the bible says “by their fruits you should know them”, and people like Todd Bentley’s fruit is rotten to the core , festering for all to see, if one is looking truly with the eyes of God, and not with the desire for more signs and wonders and prosperity blessings. God will one day spew them all out of his mouth ,if they never come to a Godly repentance .
sadly but true, he will also spew out of his mouth those who blindly chose to follow men and women like these , instead of followin him and his Truth.
The state of the church and the amount of apostate leaders and preachers, and the
amount of false docrine, clearly shows how close we are to our Lords Return and his judgements. These churches,wolves and blind christians will one day reap the judgements for all the sins they have sowed in the Name of God.
Just a thought here. Jesus told the woman at the well to go and sin no more, a model of forgiveness. Todd had an adulterous affair with Jessa and divorced his wife. As I understand Scripture YOUR adultery does not give YOU permission to divorce your spouse, thus Todd is living in unrepentant sin. Of course his doctrine in itself is sin, but that’s another matter.
Forgiveness is a contract between two parties who have been separated by offense. Without the offending party seeking reconciliation through forsaking of the sin, no forgiveness can be issued. God does not bestow mercy without repentance. Bentley has not met this condition. Bethea is unlearned about a basic Biblical doctrine.
Bentley continues on with failed prophecies, heretical doctrines and false claims of miracles. He lies about angels and God as he invents ever more preposterous tales of the supernatural. He fellowships with the likes of the Bob Jones and is discipled by the deluded Science Fiction/Fantasy writer, Rick Joyner. Bentley retains the benefit of his adultery with Jessa and has refused to return to the wife of his youth. Where then is Bentley’s part in the forgiveness the author believes he is entitled to receive from the church?
Allen Bethea has promoted a feminized form of forgiveness which requires no responsibility.
Stan
As the Church, we have been given the keys of the kingdom. Jesus said in John 20:23:
“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld”.
This passage means that that through the preaching of the Law and Gospel the terms and conditions for the absolution of sin or the retention of sin is announced according as God has ordained it. The Church has no inherent authority, it is the authority of the Scriptures that mandate the Church. As such, there cannot be any absolution of Bentley’s sin if he has no repentance or faith in the correct doctrine.
As a Christian forgiveness is withheld from this man (and ALL others like him) because he is not coming to God on His terms; rather Bentley is making up is own false god to worship as if it were the God of the Bible. A true Christian cannot endorse the blatant and impious errors of this man.
Bentley does not live or preach as someone who is forgiven. He continues in his error to this day. If the Church is the Pillar and Buttress of truth, we are not living up to Jesus’ commands if we endorse this wolf and not call him to repentance for his sin.
Amen, guys! Amen!
Yes. I forgive Todd Bentley for all of it – all of his many blunders.
Problem is this: Todd doesn’t want forgiveness. I watched a piece where he was doing a guest preaching spot. He was talking and laughing about all of it – and the audience was laughing right along with him…
So if Todd repents, the forgiveness is his for the taking – but in the meantime, I’m wiping the dust from my feet…
In one of my comments in another thread about Benny Hinn, I explained why he is not my brother in Christ:
Go to: http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2010/05/23/benny-hinn-touch-not-the-anointed-one/
I maintain the same about Todd Bentley. Those who serve a cultic and heretical “Jesus” are lost, and they will remain lost until they repent and receive the real Jesus of the Bible.
Like Benny Hinn and others within the Word of Faith/Prophetic Movement, there is overwhelming evidence that proves that Todd Bentley serves a false “Jesus” and preaches a false gospel.
Further, Todd Bentley’s so-called “restoration” includes the very same heretics that contributed to his serving a false “Jesus” in the first place. Bentley jumped out of the hot skillet into the fire, then back into the hot skillet, so to say.
Throughout the Bible, God has ZERO TOLERANCE for false teachers and false prophets. False teachers and false prophets are NOT members of the body of Christ. They are NOT our brothers and sisters in Christ. Unless they repent, they will not make it to heaven.
Allen Bethea needs to realize that fact.
Bud Press
One thing missing from Allen’s excerp in the Examiner. Todd Bentley is also a convicted child molester. Forgiven or not, that should disqualify this man from ministry forever. Period. He cannot be trusted around his own children, other people’s children, and furthermore, he represents an insult to all sexual abuse victims.
I am so with you on that! I don’t see anything in Scripture that calls us to forgive the continuance of false doctrine.
Forgiveness comes after repentance.
There has been zero evidence of repentance for the false teaching, false prophesies, or false healings.
Healing claims of more than 30 resurrections. Medical documentation to verify any of these claims = zero. Evidence of recanting or repentance for these false claims = zero.
True repentance and restoration is needed. Added to that, more repentance of the false “restoration process” is now needed.
Digging themselves deeper and deeper.
Just think what Jesus would have thought. This man was caught in the depravity of his sin and refuses to leave that sin behind. As mentioned ealier, Jesus told the woman at the well,”Go forth and sin no more.” He didn’t tell her to seek forgiveness from her friends and alies. She knew in an instant that the forgiveness was from the Lord. People, especialy teachers and preachers, need to realize that sin stunts them, and in turn stunts the ministry and those depending on them. It is my hope that this man and others like him would realise they have no place in the ministry and should willfuly step down, for all concerned.
Chrystal:
I take exception with what you wrote for only one reason:
Couldn’t have said it better myself. lol
In all seriousness, real forgiveness can only come with real repentence. And the ministry marred remains marred, forgiveness or not.
Does Mr. Bentley need forgiveness if he himself thinks that he doesn’t need any forgiveness at all? During that so called ‘restoration process’ Todd never mentioned that he had sinned. His adultery with his nanny was a mistake and NOT qualified as SIN. If he would acknowledge that and live accordingly to the Word of God, he would also not marry his mistress and he would return to his wife and children. If Todd mocks with a divine deed as forgiveness, – didn’t Jesus died for us on the cross so that we could have forgiveness by God the Father and repent from our sins – , is he actually not kidding God Himself like Ananias and Saphirra tried to do? There was also an incident during a service with Todd Bentley at Morning Star. These courageous people confronted Todd with his sin. But instead of repentance or a willing ear to listen to these people, the steward accompanied these people out of the service. And again, there was NO acknowledgement of his sins. The best thing to do with Todd is to wipe the dust of your feet, boycot him and warn others about him. God will deal with him in due time. You don’t need to be a prophet for that. It is just mere plain biblical logic. He speaks in the name of a god but it is not Adonai, the G’d of Israel.
Todd Bentley is what he is. I am concerned with the complete stupidity of his followers.
I wonder what their lifestyle is like.
I suggest you mark the so called leaders that still minister with him and have nothing to do with them as well.
Their love of position and money over rides any desire to live righteous before our Lord. They will reap what they sow.
Todd Bentley is familiar with the word “sin”. He has written about it:
“If you have a sin in your life that you’ve been playing around with, you need to get serious and repent. The longer you toy with it, the harder your heart will become.” (Todd Bentley, “The Reality of the Supernatural World,” Destiny Image Publishers, Inc., June 1, 2008, p. 150).
A typo in an article is a mistake. Turning off the freeway onto a wrong exit is a mistake. Dialing a wrong number is a mistake. But what Todd Bentley chose to do was and is sin, to which there should have been immediate repentance–both privately and publicly (1 John 1:6-10).
There is a big difference between a mistake and sin. Christians recognize sin for what it is and repent. Non-Christians recognize sin as a mistake and make excuses.
Bud Press
18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
I don’t see in The Scriptures that forgiveness is a “contract”, perhaps referring to a covenant? When someone cuts us off in traffic and we are having a bad day, we are to forgive them and renew our minds per Romans 12:1-2, and repent if necessary (be angry and sin not). The other person who cut us off isn’t going to be available to
‘reconcile’, and what about those Christians in other parts of the world being persecuted, as hard as it is we are to forgive (our part) and let God deal with the other person. Reconciliation is a different matter, part of a relationship/covenant.
As pastors and leaders are straying from the narrow path, we shouldn’t listen to them or stay under their teaching. We are seeing this more and more and God’s Word warned about this. False and ‘other’ christs abound and The Bible said the very elect will be deceived. It is our responsibility to read His Word and pray that we will not be deceived, and to know Him – the real Jesus, God’s Own Son.
It is always the same with the apologists for heretics. Whether its Benny Hinn or Todd Bently. They start with a falsehood such as: “Many Christian leaders have a problem with Todd’s dress and tattoos….” I personally got saved into a church with a Pastor that wears biker gear and is fairly tattooed himself. Yet his doctrine is exceptionally sound, completely biblical and he stands upon the foundation of the Truth of the Scriptures. So believe it or not I would venture to guess that I like many other critics of Todd Bently have little or no problem with his physical appearance and rest our concerns soley on Todd’s doctrinal beliefs.
Then the apologists try to elevate themselves as super-holy because only they are forgiving and the rest of us are bitter unforgiving Christians attacking a man because of the way he looks. FALSE: I forgive Todd and I forgive Benny. (I have always said the only difference between the 2 are the tattoos) Forgiving someone doesn’t mean that you allow them to continue to teach heretical doctrine thinly vieled as Christianity…and as a Berean not “call” them on it. In other words Todd’s problem is not his appearance. (although truth be known regarding the tats many are occult in nature and were recieved AFTER he started his ministry) The problem with Todd and Benny is they continue to this very second…to preach a deceptive gospel of heresies and lies that tricks, and confuses those that do not have a very strong biblical foundation…and those who may be new in the faith. The 2 of these guys CORRUPT the nature and truth of the Word to the best of their abilities…both for monetary gain.
So my problem with Todd is his baptizing people in the name of “BAM” instead of the Father Son and Holy Ghost. Or telling a crowds that great healing have taken place when actually ZERO, NONE, NADA healings have been documented. So he is a LIAR.
He claims to have repented and is under the safety of Rick Joyners wing (which reminds me of Bishop Clearance Maclendon..after his dallianses with a young church member, sudden divorce from The First Lady, and subsequent marriage to said young female…he recieved counseling from EARL PAULK!) YET, Todd is still today talking about his on going relationship with a female angel. Emma- false doctrine…no female angels. There comes a point and Todd and Benny are both WAY beyond the point…that to anything other than to Expose the Fruitless Deeds of Darkness Eph. 5:11 that these 2 espouse…is poor pastorship are poor sheparding…allowing friends family of congregants to entertain ravinous wolves ssuch as these 2. It has nothing to do with thier dress, or tattoos or big hair IT IS ALL ABOUT THE HERESY.
Really, other than the fact of the enumerated heresies, occultic “ministry practices”, adherence to William Branham fantastic errror, financial manipulation of those called to give to receive Bentley’s anointing, the unrepentant sexual sin, (by the way), he may be married), but he in nonetheless disqualified, I wonder how one concludes Bentley is being restored.
Sister, you said, “False and ‘other’ christs abound and The Bible said the very elect will be deceived. ” Just for clarification, I believe the Bible says that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, even the very elect would be deceived. Jesus said in Matt. 24, “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” I think it’s very important to point out that He said IF IT WERE POSSIBLE. The inference is simply that it’s NOT possible to deceive the very elect; at least not to the point of losing the salvation He paid for. To say that the elect can be decieved is to say that God is not able to sustain those whom He has called.
Just wanted to clarify!
In His service,
Mike
Since Todd Bentley’s “fall” in 2008, I have maintained that he needs to confess, repent, be born again, separate from the Prophetic Movement, and surround himself with solid, Bible-based Christians.
But Bentley didn’t do that. He slid further into the Prophetic Movement mudhole, took a hike for awhile, then jumped right back into the same mudhole with those who deceived him from the get-go.
Within the Prophetic Movement, the word “restoration” takes on a different meaning than within Christianity. Todd Bentley was lured into deception, and is now being “restored” back into deception–back into the Prophetic Movement.
After all, those who took Todd Bentley under their wings couldn’t have him fly away from the mudhole and land on solid Christian soil. It would have been too big of an embarrassment. Besides, they had invested too much time, effort, and money in Bentley to allow that to happen.
So, what’s the bottom line with Todd Bentley? Unless he repents and receives the real Jesus Christ, he will worsen, grow darker, and slide deeper into deception.
Strap on your discernment seatbelts, brothers and sisters, and remain steadfast in the Biblical Jesus Christ. We “ain’t” seen nothing yet.
Bud Press
Thanks I did leave out the most important word didn’t I?! Really bad about reading my posts accurately before I hit submit…
I was blown away when I read the other thread about the three men who say they are the Messiah, Jesus. How could those people that are following them believe them when what they say doesn’t line up with Scripture?
We need to be forgiving, but that doesn’t mean be blind and follow over into the abyss…
So my question might be, “If “God has turned those who would be false teachers/prophets over to their own deception”, then how can they ever come back to the truth of the Word?
Seems that they are doomed unless the very one who turned them over to their own deception turns their hearts back. They are in a world of hurt and they just don’t get it because they have the “experience” as their evidence.
At this point, he is irrelevant. The only people that care are those who are “spellbound” by the “thought” of signs and wonders.
The interesting thing about “even the elect if it were possible” …is …everyone considers themselves, “The Elect.” NAR, WOF, Mormons, Catholics, Morningstar ministries, etc. I know it comes down to a true heart condition and that a large portion of professing Christians will be ‘left behind’….but here’s the thing. We are under deceptions now. Decievedy by man, by our government, by the media, by tares in the church, by powers principalities and evil spirits in high places, by Satan…..but the big deception is coming as written in 2 Thess 2 and it will be a God Delusion. The Infinite Creator of the Universe will send a delusion for which there is “No Return.” They will forfiet their souls. I am constantly studying deception and delusion and looking and keeping a watchful eye open….but so many I know could care less. They figure they are saved and that’s all they need to know. Maybe they are right. It fascinates me to consider how great the deception we are under after 60-70 years of TV programming, commercials, movies, billboards, media, magazines…at the checkout counter. Music, lyrics, new forms of worship, and music in church, mesmerizing lightshows in church, TBN, false teachers appearing as ministers of righteousness….etc. etc. etc. For example: 30 years no cigarette ads on TV. If I say WINSTON taste good as a _______ should….how many know the answer? OR how do you spell relief? 30 year old ad campaign. Programming sticks with us and helps form our worldview. If Satan is in charge and I believe he is…..how programmed are we? Thank God we are made a “new” in Christ. We are transformed by the renewal of our minds.
If you guys get a chance to read “Apostolic Foundations” by Art Katz , please do so – you can download a pdf version of this amazingly bare and honest look at what true Apostolic life & true Prophetic calling that have been taken over by Dominionists.. Art Katz ministry itself was/is through his writings and sermons still a mighty and effective tool of Truth.
Here is an paragraph or two from the chapter titled “The Davidic Kingdom”
(eBook pdf version available here: http://www.fireonthealtar.com/books/Art Katz/Apostolic Foundations.pdf)
“Now David could have said, “Okay, if it is just my life, then let Saul take it. But listen, I am called to be the king of Israel, and out of my very loins will come a descendant, who will be the King forever, and the salvation of all mankind. When I see the intention of God for my life, then it has got to be preserved.” David, however, would not say that, for he knew that if God could not preserve what pertains to Him, then he himself would not do it by stretching out his hand. What David did in that moment had eternal ramifications, and the powers of the air knew it in the moment of that act.
How many of us see divorce as violence? It is a tearing of a relationship asunder, and we justify doing it in the name of preserving ‘our’ ministries, because the wisdom by which we are moved is self-preservation. To exalt our ministry is only disguising the fact that it is really our self that is implicated in that ministry. We are hiding behind it. Likewise, if our wife is an irritant, or counterproductive, or opposes us, then we think that we can justify the violence of divorce. How few have faulted us for so doing, and with what scant interruption do we continue ‘our important service’ with a new and more attractive spouse! Few remember that there was once another wife, and we go on as ever, just as popular, and the moment passes and people forget. The ministry becomes everything, and the issue of the eternal purpose of God demonstrated through the church suffers a setback, because we have condescended to the wisdom of the world in what was expedient for our satisfaction. David would not allow himself this luxury, even though it was his life, and what would issue from his life at stake. God must be trusted for that fulfillment, and not the stretching forth of one’s own hand in expediency.
This is the demonstration of the meekness of the Davidic kingdom. It is the willingness to allow one’s life to be expended rather than to do what in fact Jesus could have done in calling down legions of angels. Like David, He had all power in His hand to do away with His tormentors. Like David, however, He could not save Himself, because He was the King of another Kingdom. He simply could and would not, because it was contrary to His nature to save Himself.”
Pride can never mix with ministry unto Christ and it is something many Christians do not see and can make assumptions about “forgiveness” and “unity” mistaking “tolerance for sin” with “love for the sinner”. Love covers a multitude of sin but pride and a continued thumbing of the nose towards pure biblical observance casts off the net of love because love of self (a self produced, flesh based egocentric view of ones importance to “ministry” or to God) is the covering of the proud and haughty.
I still cry out to God for the souls of such men and for those who follow them. May God purify His name among us and in His great mercy intervene where reason, logic and sound biblical warnings do not seem to make entrance.
Sigh.
David.
IWTT:
Briefly, Romans 1:28 informs us that God gives people over to a depraved mind (reprobate in the KJV). As the Creator of the universe, everything in the universe is God’s to do with what He pleases. He knows the future and the hearts of men and women, as well as those who will receive Jesus Christ as Savior and be born again.
As the sovereign God, He and He alone decides who is among the reprobate (see Romans 9:24-25; Ephesians 1:4-5; Jeremiah 6:30, and Proverbs 16:4 for additional study).
Bud Press
@ sister: “Contract” is my term. I used it to emphasize that there are two sides to forgiveness when it’s within the church because reconciliation is sought in the act. How you respond to someone who cuts you off in traffic or to who hates you because of righteousness sake, you are forgiving them without necessarily seeking to be reconciled to them.
Forgiveness in the church acts like a contract in important ways. Contracts demand certain performances from both parties and penalizes either one if they don’t meet them. Both the requirements and penalties are stated in the New Testament. For example, the offender must “leave his gift at the altar” and go to be reconciled first before he can offer his gift. If he doesn’t do that, he will be judged. Or, if a brother sins against you, you are to go to him privately and show him his fault; and if he repents, forgive him. If he refuses, then other steps are taken. If he still refuses, he is to be ostracized. If your brother sins against you and turns and repents you are to forgive him – up to 70 times 7 times. All these are two-sided, like contracts.
Since Bentley names the name of Christ, he can only be reconciled to the church at large by his repentance. Really though, that’s academic as far as I’m concerned, because I don’t believe he is saved. I believe he is an invader into the flock who has deceived many and taken money from them with his lies about visions and miracles. Therefore, his repentance needs to be first to God, then he needs to show that he has repudiated his false doctrines by learning and then holding to sound doctrine and practice. Unless he brings forth fruit in keeping with repentance, no forgiveness can be extended to him.
Thank you for the clarification Stan, I really believed that is what you were writing, but wanted to make sure. I believe many read this blog Chrystal has set up and never comment, but come to glean truth, so that is why I asked and brought up the subject of the casual encounter (car incident) and the relationship in The Body.
I saw an article in the news about a woman who “infiltrated” a church pretending to be a believer (when she is a staunch atheist) just to document, expose and ultimately write a book about her encounters (which she has).
There are many who come into our mists, whether it be actual church buildings, or in blogs like this, seeking truth wanting answers, wanting communion of Believers, and yet others have darker reasons. I believe everyone here really have a heart for God and desire that all would be saved, knowing also that most will not find the narrow path. Not writing allot on this blog (just when i feel led), but I have kept up with the different topics and comments, it challenges like God’s Word says: Iron against iron.
May those that come here not really having a relationship with Jesus, hunger until they really repent and find Him. And those of us that know Him dig in deeper, running our race with compassion speaking Truth in love to all who will receive it, to God’s Glory.
JimmieCrackCorn….you said, “If Satan is in charge and I believe he is…..how programmed are we? ”
I would disagree. I do not believe Satan is even REMOTELY in charge. He is an angel under the authority of the Most High. He can do NOTHING unless he is allowed by the Father. He IS powerful but not in charge. Colossians 1.16 tells us that by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were created by him, and for him. That would include old slewfoot and his demonic host. They are subject to HIS will. Satan can tempt us but certainly cannot force us to do anything. That choice is up to us. We see the defeat of Satan in John 12.31 where Jesus said, “Now shall the prince of this world be cast out.” Satan is permitted to do things and that is the extent of his “authority.” We learn also in Colossians 2.15 that Christ spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in his death and resurrection.
Rule and reign and Lordship belong to none other than Jesus Christ. I know you agree. And that is why I NEVER give Satan the “credit” of being in charge; because he isn’t.
Just my thoughts.
As for the rest of your post, I agree. Many will say, “Lord, Lord”, but they will be told that they were NEVER known. It doesn’t say they “used to be known” (so much for losing one’s salvation). They were NEVER known. Indeed, God WILL send a strong delusion and there will come a day when He will not contend with men any longer.
In His service,
Mike
Tough situation. Todd Bentley seems as though he’s been snared pretty good and that’s very, very hard to break from.
Let’s keep praying he gets out of that insane and delusional world he lives in. K
Bud Press,
Side note:
Briefly, Romans 1:28 informs us that God gives people over to a depraved mind (reprobate in the KJV). As the Creator of the universe, everything in the universe is God’s to do with what He pleases. He knows the future and the hearts of men and women, as well as those who will receive Jesus Christ as Savior and be born again.
As the sovereign God, He and He alone decides who is among the reprobate (see Romans 9:24-25; Ephesians 1:4-5; Jeremiah 6:30, and Proverbs 16:4 for additional study).
This is something that I and my wife are having to come to terms with. We have gone through a situation (family issue) that we thought that we were “standing in the gap” (bad theology I know) and “prayed with faith” in the situation and yet it still went the way it did.
This “faith shatterer” if you will is, “Well if God already knows it all, who will and won’t, then he also knows the hearts of people who will or won’t make correct decisions that could be harmful (especially if Alzheimer my be in the picture) and he doesn’t pluck them out of the danger.” Why pray? It doesn’t seem to make a difference?
I know this is a different topic, but your post hit home at the moment.
IWTT
In answer to the above comment:
IWTT says:
June 28, 2010 at 3:58 pm
So my question might be, “If “God has turned those who would be false teachers/prophets over to their own deception”, then how can they ever come back to the truth of the Word?
I think that from my observance of those who are deluded…the will is strongly involved. They are deluded because they have chosen that way. And when it says that God sends them a strong delusion, it means he has strengthened their delusion because that’s what they want. I think it begins and ends with the will. Hebrews stresses that they did not enter in because of their unbelief. Their unbelief is what they chose and what they wanted.
The way out is and will always be a willingness to believe God. I am convinced that false prophets are where they are (in delusion) because somewhere along the way, simply believing God has not been enough for them, so they have departed from the faith, been strengthened in their delusion (because there is always progression) and sin’s deceitfulness has hardened their heart. Not God’s will, but theirs be done.
Hebrews 3:12-19
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”[p]
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[q]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
As you can see it is a progression…first turning away from God. The good news:
Ezekiel 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
To comment on the last thing that IWTT said:
This is something that I and my wife are having to come to terms with. We have gone through a situation (family issue) that we thought that we were “standing in the gap” (bad theology I know) and “prayed with faith” in the situation and yet it still went the way it did.
This “faith shatterer” if you will is, “Well if God already knows it all, who will and won’t, then he also knows the hearts of people who will or won’t make correct decisions that could be harmful (especially if Alzheimer my be in the picture) and he doesn’t pluck them out of the danger.” Why pray? It doesn’t seem to make a difference?
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We all have people that we love that are doing things or in situations that we would choose differently for them. It is true that God knows all things and most of all he knows our hearts. What he is directing by his sovereign will cannot be comprehended by our finite minds. But he has tasked us with living before him, listening to him and learning to believe him and most of all praising him in all circumstances. If we will do that, we will learn that God answers our prayers in the most mysterious ways. He will change our hearts and answer our prayers much better than we could ever imagine, even though…though we may be impatient for the answer that our reasoning demands should happen. God instead sees a much bigger picture and he wants us to stop fretting, stop looking at only temporal circumstances and look toward his eternal purposes as we stand in the gap for those we love…
19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. Ephesian 3:19-21
Mike– Maybe I didn’t clarify. Yes of course Christ still sits on the Throne, but my understanding is that Satan has been given diminion over the earth and he can do with it as he wishes as portrayed in Matt 4:1-11. I believe Satan is the PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR. And that he is the father of all lies. Deception. That God will turn over many to that deception in 2 Thess. 2. I believe that the devil FOOLED THE WHOLE WORLD. I believe that he roams to and fro seeking whom he may devour. I believe he has a human army a Synagogue of Satan if you will who does his bidding. And that many of them APPEAR AS MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. I believe that there are TARES that where planted by SATAN who are GROWN-UP today and in the church. I believe that Satan rules the airwaves. Which is why there is no quality Christian programming that is not prefaced with a heretic and followed with a heretic to confuse the viewer since Satan is the AUTHOR OF CONFUSION. I believe on the day he was created he was made perfect in all WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING. I believe he has a regiment at his beckon call that are POWERS, (who are in positions to decieve millions on a massive scale) PRINCIPALITIES (those that CONTROL such means as banking, fame, media, entertainment, TV, universities, Freemasons, Skull and Bones, ALL who worship thier god Lucifer and “cause deception to flourish Danial 8:23-25) RULERS OF THIS DARK WORLD….given over to Satan …those who allow deception to prosper…and EVIL SPIRITS IN HIGH PLACES- the demonic spiritual hiearchy who dominates and controls and leads a stray THROUGH DECEPTION.
Thats what I was talking about. Since we have been viewing TV and reading media, and news reports for 50 years that are controlled by those I just mentioned….. I wonder how decieve even us knowledgable Christians and gilded, wisened and learned scholars are….. by the GOD of THIS World. Satan.
I have just noticed something for the first time – apologists for wolves are thick. They may be highly intelligent elsewhere in life, but when they attempt to justify ungodliness they come across as hopelessly and utterly thick.
They may be quantum physicists in their day jobs, fluent speakers of many languages, prolific writers of award winning plays in their spare time. But as soon as they open their mouths or write in defence of a wolf, it is as if their brains are replaced with concrete.
Perhaps the wilful exchanging of the truth of God for a lie in order to worship and serve a created thing (insert false minister here) temporarily renders the apologist intellectually numb. The piece that is the subject of this post is a classic example of a darkened mind, devoid of sound reason and stunningly arrogant in it’s assumption that folk won’t observe the fallacy.
Thank God for a sound mind and His patience – particulary with the likes of me who (but for His grace) would probably be eating grass by now had He not rescued me from amongst unrepentant followers of Bentley, Arnott, Crowder and co.
Romans 1:18-32