In Todd Bentley’s blog post entitled “May 22nd Weekend Wrap Up,” Bentley said that while ministering, he felt the “healing angel” show up. This is what Bentley said on his blog:
Wow! What an amazing time we had Saturday night! During the worship I felt the healing angel show up. I began to immediately start ministering words of knowledge to people. It was healing and prophetic words! People were getting touched by Jesus! I love how the Lord always shows up. (Source – see above link)
Here we go again. Bentley’s familiar approach to ministry should be no surprise. The more he talks about angels and trips to Heaven, the more followers he reels in. It worked in the past, so why not now? Now, before you’re tempted to believe this is just another one of Bentley’s tall tales (which, it is), let’s consider Bentley’s claims as they compare to the ministry of William Branham. To keep it quick and short – Bentley claims the same angel that guided William Branham and John G. Lake is the same angel that guides him. This is from Let Us Reason Ministries:
Bentley says: “Then on December 5, 2000 an angel appeared to me and said he was the angel that appeared to me in April 1998 (before the Lord Jesus Christ came to me in the kitchen). He said that the day he came to me in 1998 was the day he was assigned to me. This time (on December 5th) the angel said, “I am the angel that has been assigned to your life. I am a healing angel . . . You are going to take miracles, signs and wonders around the world.”
“I was with William Branham” (the Voice of Healing movement), the angel said. He told me about William Branham’s angelic encounter in 1946. Two years later the Voice of Healing was born there was a revival.”
”The angel appeared to me again, February, 2001 in Albany, Oregon. He said, “I am the angel that was a part of the Healing Rooms . . . John G. Lake.” Next, my spirit was quickened when I read about the angel in the Bible—John Chapter 5. The word says there was a pool called Bethesda (v. 2) and multitudes of lame, blind, sick would come there and at a certain time, an angel of the Lord would come down and stir the waters. Whoever could get into the pool first would be healed.
I started to understand the angel described in John Chapter 5 was one of many thousands of angels that are in heaven that are called to bring healing, not just through ministries, but in cities and in nations. This revelation resonated within me and in January, 1999 I was taken into the heavens and saw over 100 healing pools. I thought of several famous healing evangelists and also the Toronto Blessing and the revival in Pensacola.
So I said, “Lord what are you saying?” He said, “I am going to release angels.” At that point I was taken into heaven and I was taken into a football stadium setting where I saw tens of thousands of angels in the stands. I was on the field and I had the ball. The time clock was running out of time. It was like the last play of the game and my first thought was, Why do I have the ball? I hate sports! (I was the last guy you’d want on your team. I just wasn’t athletic.) Here I am thinking: I got the ball!
It was the end-time game, there was just seconds left! The angels were in the stands yelling, “Go church go! Go church go! Go church go!” I realized they were healing angels in the stands. I thought, Lord, they are angels, just like the one I saw. “That is right!” He said. “Just like the one that was with Branham, just like the one that was with John Lake, just like the angel that was in Spokane . . .”
You know in the Book of Revelation, the seven churches, each one of the churches had one angel assigned. There was an angel for the church of Philadelphia, and so on. The Lord said, “It is not a strange thing. I assign angels to churches. I assign angels to ministries. Look at John Chapter 5. An angel came down and stirred up the water.” I said, “God!” Then, He said, “And there is a healing angel; I have assigned it to your life; and this angel will be at your meetings around the world.” (DISCERNING THE CALL OF GOD by Revivalist Todd Bentley – [as edited by Kathy Thorne] Part 2 of 2) (Source)
Okay, I’m going to supress the urge to crack out a witty response to Bentley’s ridiculous account of angels watching him play football in Heaven and stay on task here.
When Rick Joyner began Todd Bentley’s restoration, there was no hope it would be to restore him to sound doctrine since both Joyner and Bentley teach Latter Rain doctrine, which never has been and never will be sound. As you can see, Bentley is still teaching the same false doctrine of mysticism he has alway taught. Fully backed by William Branham and John G. Lake’s healing angel, Todd Bentley is, step-by-step, rebuilding the heretical ministry he lost when he left his wife for another woman and fled Lakeland, Florida in disgrace. Nothing has changed. We’re not surprised, though, are we? What Joyner has done is he has given credibility to a false prophet and a mystic. Something he himself has become known as. The sad fact? Their followers are too blind to see it.
I can still hear Bentley screaming “angels, angels, angels” in my mind and can only shudder. With that in mind, consider this next quote from Bentley from the blog post noted above:
Monday night I ministered and preached to the pastors and leaders and wow how the Holy Spirit moved!
Pastors and leaders or hirelings who allow the wolves in to devour the sheep? (John 10:12)
“by their fruits you shall know them.” before one is reborn by god’s spirit, his heart is evil, mk 7:20… afterwards, the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, gentleness, …, none of which i discern in the nar group.
after reading sermons and bio’s (a representative one is gordon lindsay’s) of branham, i cannot say the same of him.. branham taught some different stuff, but at least i discern humility and honesty. except christ, all of the giants of the faith were incomplete–paul preached that christ’s return was imminent and here we are 2000 years later.
again, my spirit does not resonate with bentley, joyner, bickle, johnson, king, toronto, wagner and the rest of the nars. (but maybe their spirits are reborn spirits and mine is not.)
highrpm:
I agree with your first paragraph. But, here is some of the “different stuff” William Branham taught: he falsely prophesied the end of the world in 1977, and taught that in the beginning God was nothing more than a “thought.” Branham flat-out denied the Trinity and the deity of Jesus Christ, and taught that Jesus was created.
Source for further reading: http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain4.htm
William Branham was a heretic, false prophet, and blasphemer. Yet, he still has a large following and is praised and honored by Todd Bentley, Rick Joyner, Benny Hinn, and others within the Word of Faith and Prophetic movements.
Finally, your last paragraph leaves me to ask, Are you a born again Christian?
Bud Press
Bentley had to outdo Joyner’s angel story. In the Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel “The Final Quest,” Joyner had angels bowing to him; saluting him and calling him “Sir” as he solved puzzles in heaven that stumped the angels. So, Bentley had to be the unlikely star of a heavenly football game with thousands of angelic fans who are frantic to see the church get the game winning toss from who else but their hero, Todd Bentley. Hurry Todd. When you unerringly hurl the pigskin down the gridiron to us receivers, we will plant the gamewinning ball in the endtime zone and the angels will all have tears in their eyes. All because of you. sniff
I got a question to ask of the OP of this article and it’s been bugging me lately, but let me just say first that I think Bentley is a nut and will be judged in due season. But, does Chrystal believe in healing? Does the writer of this article believe in our call by Christ that in his (Christ) name we will do those things which he specifically said in Mark 16:17-18? Does the writer believe in casting out demons today? Does the writer believe in signs and wonders are for today? Why is this important that she answer? Because her whole argument on Todd Bentley, whether or not he is a false preacher, is an argument on the manifistations of God’s outpouring in these last days. She quotes from the ministry called “Let us reason” and the danger of this ministry is that they do NOT believe in last days miracles, healings or the move of the holy spirit. The owner – Mike Oppenheimer, has been subject to many conflicting scriptual doctrines, such as that logic surpases miracles, that God cannot do miracles today and won’t, and that we are not in the last days. But I digress, the fact remains, we need to make a valid point that although there is a false move going on in many areas, there is also an equally true and very real move of God taking place in many churches across the country and the world.
I just think that we need to be careful who we take advice from when we know nothing about them. Me? I am a pentecostal (traditional) believer, I believe in miracles, I believe that in the name of Christ, sickness has to go, we are to cast out devils, there should be signs and wonders in our life and that the latter rain is coming and is here, but as I have always said, when a great move of God comes, so does a great persecution. But I just wonder her (writer of the article) motives when it comes to healing in itself and let me just say, although William Branham took a very terribly wrong turn in his later life, his beginning was real, the power of God was real, the healings were real and his encountering of angels were real, but the fact is, ignorance, pride and deception took hold to his life and ruined a once, great ministry. Is the writer herself above failure? This needs to be asked folks, seriously.
C. L. Gregory
C. L. – Yes, I believe God heals today. Do I believe people walk around in the apostolic authority? Absolutely not.
William Branham was a false prophet. Todd Bentley is a false prophet. Jude 3 tells us to contend for the faith. We do that here at Slaughter of the Sheep.
Wm Branam is not a standard of healing. In this day of Internet searching and access who knows what he may have been into-the wackiness that ended up being evidenced should give modern day preachers the hint you may not want to be emulating him and seeking his angel.
Heres the bottom line,Bentley and those associated with him will continue to wax worse and go from deception 2 deception,unless by some miracle the Lord in his mercy will open their eyes and grant them a spirit of repentance if not they will continue down the road 2 destruction.What grieve’s my heart is the multitude of people who still follow after them and support them,even after the Lord exposed them openly in Lakeland.I t is obvious that the scripture is unfolding before our very eyes,the one that talks about the Lord sending a delusion and the people beleiving the lies men like Bentley and others like him are preaching.Its been going on for longer than we think.The christians who follow these men and their ministries and note I said their ministries do not want 2 listen 2 sound doctrine,they wouldnt recognize it if it bit them in the butt.They want 2 PARTY it up and have a good ole time and they call this revival,its nothing more than blasphmey.I wonder if when their calling down fire at one of their meetings the Lord really did come and the floor opened up and a lot of people got swallowed up,I wonder what they would think than,you know he’s done it before.
C. L. Gregory:
Mike Oppenheimer is my brother in Christ and a trusted friend. If you haven’t contacted him, please do. He will be glad to answer your questions and concerns.
Concerning healing and miracles, here are a couple of short articles to consider:
http://www.gotquestions.org/miracles-Bible.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/healing-Bible.html
Bud Press
Matthew 16:6 And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
1 Corinthians 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?
These 2 scriptures come to mind when dealing with those who may at one time had good intentions and even possibly walked with the Lord, but just that little bit of pride, arrogance, love of money etc gets in and not only destroys their souls, but negates their entire testimony.
It is sad how people can call William Branham a brother in Christ. Especially since he denied the Trinity. It is equally sad that people think that just because a person has some type of manifestations in their lives and ministries then that person is a brother or sister in Christ.
That’s the thing with Pentecostals and Charismatics. The vast majority will accept anyone that comes down the pipe as long as that person speaks in tongues or “works” some type of “signs and wonders” even though that person may teach false doctrine and a false gospel.
That broad acceptance of false religions and heretics is one of the things I had problems with in the Pentecostal movement. I had a hard time justifying accepting someone that teaches a false gospel just because that person “spoke in tongues”. Those of you in the Pent/Char movement don’t say that doesn’t happen, because it does.
So that begs a question. Do the heretics really have the Holy Spirit because they “speak in tongues” or is it something else?
Do people that teach a salvation of works really have the Holy Spirit and “speak in tongues” or is it something else?
May I also suggest to C.L., “Charasmatic Chaos” by John MacArthur. Sorry, my spelling is not what it should be today. This book answered a TON of questions I had about Pentecostals (attended a UPC church for many years as a child, and was very damaged spiritually when I got out of it), Charasmatics, Latter Rain, etc etc.
Well Bud, I’ve heard this argument before from those who simply distort the word or refuse to accept the truth. The fact is, in Mark 16:17-18 these signs will follow them that believe, notice the words (will follow and believe) and how they are in fact worded, the question is who believes? Those who will believe in Jesus Christ will perform the same miracles. This argument by many today, well, they are fewer in numbers, are people who have rejected the miracles of Christ and the pwoer he gives us. I have seen the demonic set free in my own ministry, until you have actually seen the things I have seen, cripples walk, hearing restored, the possessed set free, then you’re argument is based on twisted wording of the word. I speak in tongues, I preach deliverence, I believe in miracles are for today. The fact is, within the Baptist movement, their numbers are growing less and less -why? Why is the pentecostal/charismatic faith one of the fastest growing segments in our nation and in the world? Because we believe in allowing the holy spirit to actually work in people’s lives.
C.L. … you said:
” I have seen the demonic set free in my own ministry, until you have actually seen the things I have seen, cripples walk, hearing restored, the possessed set free, then you’re argument is based on twisted wording of the word. I speak in tongues, I preach deliverence, I believe in miracles are for today.”
I would rather hear you say you preach the gospel. The Apostle Paul did all of those things through the anointing, but he said, “For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” (1Co 2:2)
There are an awful lot of “I’s” in your statement.
C.L. wrote:
I just think that we need to be careful who we take advice from when we know nothing about them. Me? I am a pentecostal (traditional) believer, I believe in miracles, I believe that in the name of Christ, sickness has to go, we are to cast out devils, there should be signs and wonders in our life and that the latter rain is coming and is here, but as I have always said, when a great move of God comes, so does a great persecution. But I just wonder her (writer of the article) motives when it comes to healing in itself and let me just say, although William Branham took a very terribly wrong turn in his later life, his beginning was real, the power of God was real, the healings were real and his encountering of angels were real, but the fact is, ignorance, pride and deception took hold to his life and ruined a once, great ministry. Is the writer herself above failure? This needs to be asked folks, seriously.
C.L., I have some questions for you.
First, what is a “traditional Pentecostal” believer? Is that in opposition to an untraditional one and, if so, what exactly is an untraditional one? (I’m not being sarcastic…I just want to know your definition).
Second, you said sickness “has to go.” Where does it say it HAS to go? Paul sought deliverance thrice and was denied. If anyone deserved any kind of healing, surely it was the Apostle Paul. And if sickness has to go, why are there sick Christians everywhere who have been prayed for for years and years? We are not promised a life of health, wealth, and prosperity. We live in fallen bodies subject to decay, subject to sickness, and subject to death. Jesus Himself told His disciples that they’d suffer and some would even die a horrible death of crucifixion. That doesn’t sound like their best life now. Do I believe that the Lord heals? ABSOLUTELY, but to assume that ALL sickness must go is a bit presumptuous and flies in the face of reality that it’s simply not God’s will to heal everyone who is prayed for. Consider James 5.10 when he says, “Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.” Hmmmm…..doesn’t sound like sickness had to go there.
Third, what kinds of signs and wonders should be evident in our lives? Should they be things other than what is shown in Scripture? What about the “signs and wonders” I saw at the last church I went to where people fell on the floor shaking, clucking like roosters (this was explained to be a “wake-up call from the Holy Spirit”), mooing like cows (this was explained to be indicative of God’s will that we receive the “milk of the word”), and roaring like lions (this was explained to be the Spirit of God telling us to roar over the church just as a lion roars over it’s pride to show it’s authority and domination). Are these valid signs and wonders? God has given us His Word whereby we are to discern and judge what we see. If we were meant to see things such as this, would He not have given us some kind of Scriptural precedent? Just asking……
Fourth, what is your understanding of “latter rain”? I know it typically revolves around Joel 2 but that verse is almost always taken out of context to support the idea of the “latter rain” doctrine. It’s a Millenial passage from all I can tell if you read the context. Israel has not seen the restoration spoken of in the passage and they won’t until the Millenial kingdom is established. Sadly, the “latter rain” folks tend to be the likes of Benny Hinn, Manasseh Jordan, and many others. And yet their doctrines are skewed and heretical in almost every case. Would you then align yourself with Bob Jones and Mike Bickle as they are huge “latter rain” Neo-Prophetic” advocates. I could certainly ramble on for quite some time about the latter rain stuff but for the sake of brevity I’ll end here and you can respond.
The real question that needs to be asked is not just concerning “the writer herself” where it concerns ignorance, pride and deception, but each one of us individually. None of us is beyond reproach or without sin. However, just because someone “might” fall doesn’t make it any less expedient to point out false doctrine, false teachers, and wolves in sheep’s clothing, just as we’re instructed to do. Chrystal is doing that very thing here. Do we stop doing the right thing because we “might” sin later? God forbid. That makes for an impotent church that immediately fails under the weight of false evidence appearing real in our minds. We were not given a spirit of fear. We were given a spirit of power, love, and a sound mind. For that reason, we should walk in that manner and do all that we can to stand for truth. And what is truth? Sola Scriptura is the answer to that.
I look forward to your responses.
In His service,
Mike
i’m with you, c. l.
“the kingdom of god comes not by logos, but by dunamis.” the best definition of logos is the “what, where. why, when and how”, the explanation for everything. the bible gives us that. but, what is dunamis, all you students of the word? it is not logos.
systematic theology smells foul:
1) the infinite creator cannot be systematized.
2) its presence hovers close by those who rationalize away the holy spirit’s gifts because…are they uncomfortable that they do not have them?
yes, bud, i am a believer, if believing that jesus is our perfect sacrifice, our high perfect high priest, making us pure to enter god’s presence. but he is more–and now i will incur that wrath of the systematics by what i have to say:
jesus is the first born, the prototype god-man, the first “born of the holy spirit” and the first “risen from the dead” with the resurrected body. now, something fundamental happened with adam’s and eve’s fall that killed the heart of man, making it evil, that only its rebirth by god’s spirit can make it alive. the mechanics of the defect are not important–it could be satan inserting a virus in man’s dna, or something else. regardless, we all have an broken heart until we are reborn by god’s spirit. jesus is the picture of man reborn with god’s spirit. acts 10:38 summarizes it: “he went about doing good and healing those under the power of the holy spirit.”
the epistles tell us that the holy spirit produces various fruits and gives various gifts. i confess i have only few fruits and no gifts. but that does not kill my hopes of getting more of both. jesus stated to the rich man and to those could not pay the price to be his disciples that god must be top priority, before all else–money, family, career… i have done that; and my wife divorced me. i have compassion for the widows and the orphans (the needy) but i have still have no gifts. so, i presently live “under the public christian ministry radar” doing the private job god has given me: taking care of my stroke-disabled mom. it is not a public ministry, and i will not go public w/o gifts, so that i do not bring shame on god’s kingdom. but at least i admit my that my spirit is incomplete–unlike the systematics. a appropritate metaphore may be that my reborn spirt has not yet reached adulthood; still a child, i cannot i cannot take on the responsibilties of a disciple, which include using the gifts. this is where bgea misleads, with its instant christianity: 1) today, get saved; 2)tomorrow, “go ye into the world and preach the gospel”. as i have stated before, that is like giving your 2-year-old the car keys and telling him to go to the supermarket to do this week’s grocery shopping. there is a growth period, folks, before we can use the holy spirit’s gifts responsibly. for my part, i will take jesus’ life on earth as my template, not systematic theology.
and i trust my spiritual discernment of disgust with the likes of the nars and dominionists, who all use the the hypnotic tatics of slow–heart beat rate–soothing and repetitive background music and speech to induce their audience to the trance state (satan is subtle and vicious). and i trust my spiritual discernment of the incompleteness of systematic theology.
Yes I was wondering the same thing as I read C.L. post. I didn’t see anything about the gospel of Jesus Christ. But then I assume that you, C.L., also believe in power evangelism, where the “signs and wonders” somehow prove the existence of God/Jesus and thereby those who see it will want Jesus?
My problem with that is this. No one is ever told WHY they need Jesus. Frankly, I have seen false signs and wonders” and find that many different religions offer the same thing for life in this world. So what makes that any different or why would I need Jesus if I can get what is taught these days from other religions. Why do I need Jesus?
Oh Chrystal, come now, we honestly are not going to select grammer as a basis for judgement are we? Seriously? You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill it would seem. I (there’s that word again) was merely making a point about what I have seen in not only my life, but in several areas of ministry. So what would you have me say?
This is the problem with doubters these days, actually, I take that back, you are not a doubter, because if you doubted in ANY of these events, you would not have written the article would you? Remember, Satan can do miracles, so let’s not dwell on the fact that your position is not about Todd, which I am firmly against for he is NOT a true example to use as a true source. Your argument or basis for the article is about does God still heal today and do we see signs and wonders today?
But let me ask you Chrystal, why only Todd? Actually, why is it that writers, convinced that every healing ministry is wrong, always writes about the false? Is it because you can’t find the real? Or is it that these ministries are easy punching bags to beat up on? Just asking an honest question. Please understand, I AGREE with you that Bentley is wrong and misguided and he will be judged, but I also believe that if we always focus on the negative, which is easy to do these days, we end up missing out on the real. Why not write an article on Reinhard Bonnke? Whose has seen millions come to Christ? Is it because he’s not gimmicky enough for you? Or his german accent is too thick to understand? Or is it because he’s the real deal and you won’t get the hits for revealing someone whose genuine?
Look, I think that you seem sincere, but as a writer myself, shouldn’t you have a balance to your information to give your readers? You know, that all too familier “Fair and Balanced” approach to writing? Or was that missed in journalism 101? Remember, writer here.
But I will strive to answer all of these comments from those seeking honesty and please understand, I do believe in preaching the gospel, absolutely. Just because I didn’t single out in that short response I gave the term “preaching the gospel” doesn’t mean that it is absent in my own life and work and calling. Far from it. My whole work is preaching Chrystal, it’s just that I believe, and it’s genuine, that when Jesus said in Mark 16:17-18, he made it clear that “these signs will follow them that believe” and I place my whole position on the words of Christ — and so should you!
Let me be clear, I operate in the office of the prophet as established by God thru the inspired writings of Paul the apostle as outlined in Eph. 4: 11 “And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers.” Man never called me – God did, so I am very concerned when someone, either out of ignorance, or rebellion, makes a position that the apostalic offices are not for today. The fact is, that is a foolish and ignorant comment to make and stand behind when the facts are this, the pentecostal movement is the FASTEST growing segment in the evangelical church today – why?
I read recently thru the Barna group, that the denominations as the SBC, independant Baptists, nazarene movement, methodists and others, are losing numbers almost yearly, matter of fact, the southern baptist convention decreed recently that they are literally seeing a dramatic shift in youth who are flocking to pentecostal/charismatic movements where a real move of the holy spirit is being seen.
Recently Charles Stanley came out in working with pentecostals, but it must be reminded that Stanely came out of the pentecostal movement because his own mother was a pentecostal believer.
The bottom line Chrystal, I hope that one day you will have an encounter with the holy spirt in a way that will literally change your perspective about the move of the holy spirit, because whether or not you agree with me and those like minded of my position, there is a last days pouring of God’s spirit these days.
C. L. I was a born and bred Pentecostal, so I know exactly what I’m talking about. Was in it my whole life and didn’t know anything different.
The apostolic office was never passed down from the apostles to anyone. They addressed elders and bishops, but not apostles because one thing you REFUSE to admit is that the office of apostle can only be held by those who physically walked with Jesus (saw Him with their own eyes) and learned from Him that way. You didn’t. C. Peter Wagner didn’t. None of his ridiculous apostles did.
You want to know why the pentecostal movement is the fastest growing segment of the church. What else do you expect in the days of strong delusion and deception? They’re not going there because they want truth. They’re going there because they are fulfilling scripture and not willing to endure sound doctrine. They want to have their ears tickled by false teachers.
As far as me having an encounter with the Holy Spirit…I did. A real one. I got saved and the Holy Spirit began leading me into all truth…the truth of Scripture. Now that’s real!
C. L. You said:
“But let me ask you Chrystal, why only Todd? Actually, why is it that writers, convinced that every healing ministry is wrong, always writes about the false? Is it because you can’t find the real? Or is it that these ministries are easy punching bags to beat up on? Just asking an honest question. Please understand, I AGREE with you that Bentley is wrong and misguided and he will be judged, but I also believe that if we always focus on the negative, which is easy to do these days, we end up missing out on the real.”
Are you saying we should eat the meat and spit out the bones?
Funny… truth and error won’t mix.
Well Mike, good questions, and please understand, because it’s important that this is said, I am in no way a representative of ALL pentecostal believers. I am NOT a charismatic believer, I simply do not always agree with every doctrine that comes out of the charismatic movement, actually, I don’t accept much of it, but, that’s for another topic and debate.
Now, you asked, “what is a “traditional Pentecostal” believer?” A traditional pentecostal believer is one who maintains that the gifts of the holy spirit is still in operation for today, we who call ourselves “pentecostals” speak in tongues, interpret tongues and, as Paul stated, prophesy. We go back to our roots with the events in Acts in the upper room when the disciples and the 120 were baptised with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. We do NOT maintain, as some do that our beginnings were at Azusa street.
Now, you asked why sickness has to go and why I said it has to. Well, that’s MY belief. Now, you brought up something that really needs to be explained on because, whether or not it was intentional, it was used (by you) as a bad example, and that was the situation of Paul and his affliction. That is a misunderstood term my friend, for Paul was NOT sick. This is a problem with some interpretations of the word, what Paul was speaking about when he was speaking concerning his AFFLICTION was actually his affliction of unbelievers as well as believers who discounted his work. Paul spoke over and over of many, like Alexander the coppersmith who did him much harm, it was not because of Paul being sick, because Paul was, from what we know, had a good constitution, remember Pauls suggestion to Timothy to “take a little wine for thy stomach’s sake?” the fact is, Timothy had bad health, Paul did not. So what was Paul speaking about then? He was asking God to remove this “thorn in the flesh” that Satan was bringing, but God would not do it, God said, “My grace is sufficient for you”. So it seems God was making his (Pauls) position to withstand the ongoing persecution as a testimant to others in the faith. It was not because of sickness as some claim.
You asked “why are there sick Christians everywhere who have been prayed for for years and years?” Good question. I believe why SOME are never healed can be found in the word. Look at Christ for example. In Mt.13:58 we see that Christ had to leave Jerusalem because of their unbelief, he could not and did not heal anyone in that City – why? The ONLY time Jesus healed the man, was when the man was brought OUTSIDE the city, because the word makes it clear that the unbelief was so great, Christ did not perform one miracle IN the gates of the city. Now, we also know that there is also sickness that is caused by sin. I tell you that MANY who are sick, do not get healed because there is sin. What did jesus tell the one man who he healed, he said, “sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” John 5:14 It was obvious that this man was sick because of sin. And lets be clear, we live in a sinful state, we are not perfect, and lastly, some people God takes home because it’s their time to go. How many times have I seen good well meaning believers pray over their loved ones to get better, when sometimes God is saying, “I want them home!” So God heals who he wants to heal, but we have his promise that if we ask ANYTHING in his name, according to his will, he will do it.
True, we are not always promised health, wealth and prosperity, and I never said that we were. But let me ask you Mark, are you blessed today? I bet if I walked into your house today, I would find food, clothes, some change and dollar bills and possibly a car in the driveway, even a computer and tv. But right now in India, there are many christians struggling to make it every day, so that’s a really bad argument do you not agree? And let me just say this about money, Paul said in 1st Timothy, 6:17 that those who are rich (wealthy) are to place their money into the gospel, so that the gospel is spread across the world.
You asked, “what kinds of signs and wonders should be evident in our lives?”
Mark 16: 17-18 explains it perfectly, I can’t add anything to it.
“What about the “signs and wonders” I saw at the last church I went to where people fell on the floor shaking, clucking like roosters (this was explained to be a “wake-up call from the Holy Spirit”), mooing like cows (this was explained to be indicative of God’s will that we receive the “milk of the word”), and roaring like lions (this was explained to be the Spirit of God telling us to roar over the church just as a lion roars over it’s pride to show it’s authority and domination). Are these valid signs and wonders?”
Wow Mark, where did YOU go to church at? Sadly I see this nonsense as well and it’s NOT of God! The word says to do all things in “decency and in order” and barking like a dog, rolling around the floor is NOT Biblical and something I do not agree on! Remember, not every movement is of God.
Well, as for the “latter rain” I believe we can go right to the word, in Acts, when Peter saw the men thinking they were drunk, but it was the 3rd hour of hte day, he told them what? He said that, this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. Notice that he did not say, This was the FULFILLMENT of the prophet Joel? Why did Peter say it then? Why, as you claim, why didn’t Peter denounce the move because obviously not in the millenial period? Because Peter was making sure they knew and we knew that the final outpouring of the spirit wit hsigns and wonders is NOW taking place since the upper room at pentecost.
But as for Hinn, Manasseh Jordan (the master prophet son) and the rest, I do not agree with and I denounce. Just because they got the limelight, does not mean that they are genuine. Mark, I operate in the office of the prophet, but I reject this nonsense because it’s of the spirit of Balaam and it’s a FALSE spirit. Now, will TBN call me someday to be on tv? Not a chance. Why? Because my prophetic word is simple REPENT!! See, I preach something that is NOT being heard today and that is to warn the church that her idolatry is wicked and we are being judged. Judgement will always begin at the house of God. But that message is not normally heard today, because they want prophets to say nice words, kind words and I don’t always do that. It’s always to bring edification, correction and restoration.
I hope that helps.
Christopher
Beware the preacher of “I”.
Bless the preacher of Christ, and Him crucified.
One has his eyes set on things above and one has his eyes set on the mirror.
No Chrystal, I’m not suggesting that we “eat the meat and spit out the bones.” What I’m suggesting is that we test all things as we are commanded. Try the spirits and see if they are from God. Just because you had a bad experience in the pentecostal faith, does not mean you have the right to paint with a broad brush every single ministry that comes along.
I’m actually beginning to realize that your sentiment is one of hostility and anger toward that which you rejected growing up. So, if that’s your basis then you have a jaded outlook on things and that’s the worse position to judge spiritual matters from, from an already slanted attitude toward God’s best.
I didn’t have a bad experience in the “pentecostal faith.” I was exposed to error.
I’m not saying that at all and I believe you know that. There is a danger to having a jaded outlook on everyone based on the actions of another. David Koresh was a nut and a murderer, so does that mean I paint with a broad brush everyone who comes along with a different viewpoint than I? Do we now judge every doctor simply because one doctor caused the death of a famous pop singer? Do we make a sweeping charge against every Pastor simply because one Pastor falls morally? I think not and I think you are making the same tag against every other believer who believes in the full operation of the gifts of today. And the fact is, Paul ESTABLISHED the office of the apostle or he would not have stated that, he made it quite clear that there is a distinction between Bishops and apostles, preachers and prophets.
And how you lumped me into Peter Wagner is beyond me!
Paul didn’t leave behind instructions for apostles…he left behind instructions for bishops, elders, and deacons. That’s because the apostles laid the foundation of the church and the bishops, deacons, and elders came after them to continue the work.
How can we have apostles today when they can not in any way fulfill the requirements for being apostles, namely, that they have seen Jesus face to face and walked with/learned from Him?
Chrystal, were you a supporter of Jerry Falwell?
I was not a supporter of Jerry Falwell.
Dear C.L.
I don’t have time to deconstruct your error. But let it be said, there is no such thing as “The Office of the New Testament, Modern Prophet”.
The Old Testament Office of the Prophet died with the old covenant.
All believers after Pentecost are told to “be ambitious to prophesy”.
This is because we have a better thing than the OT Prophets. We have the indwelling of God Himself in us.
Just a little bitty correction there. Also, modern small “p” prophets are to be accountable members of a congregation and their prophecies are to be confirmed by the Word and confirmed by witnesses in the congregation as coming from the Lord.
I could list the differences between the OT ‘Office” of the Prophet and the NT small “p” position of church prophets but I have done so ad nauseum on many anti NAR posts over the years.
I always scratch my head over self appointed modern believers who say they “operate in the Office of the Prophet” and wonder why no one operates in the “Office of the Evangelist” or the “Office of the Missionary (apostle)” or the “Office of the Teacher/Pastor”…
I think no one likes to attribute their gifts to these other of the five fold positions mentioned by Paul because the other positions in the church are not so grandiose sounding.
Oh, and the other huge diff between OT and modern, post Pentecost prophets?
The original Prophets of God WROTE the Bible.
No modern church bound prophet will ever go there. Unless they are Mormons or NAR and antichrist of course.
Your argument C.L. against Chrystal and others here is a few decades stale — no one here is saying that the gifts are not for today. Discernment is needed in the charismatic church desperately and it takes a discerning Pentecostal to pull down the false teachings of these counterfeits, liars, and false prophets of hell like Branham, Bentley, Joyner, Hamon, Wagner, Pierce, Sheets, Jacobs, Crowder, King, Campbell, Cain, Bob Jones etc.
Dear highrpm:
You are preaching nonsense.
Jesus is not a prototype (are you a Mormon?) and He is not a “force”, He is the Eternal Word made flesh.
You are infected with NAR nonsense. Please peddle it elsewhere.
highrpm says:
June 2, 2010 at 8:18 pm
i’m with you, c. l.
“the kingdom of god comes not by logos, but by dunamis.” the best definition of logos is the “what, where. why, when and how”, the explanation for everything. the bible gives us that. but, what is dunamis, all you students of the word? it is not logos.
systematic theology smells foul:
1) the infinite creator cannot be systematized.
2) its presence hovers close by those who rationalize away the holy spirit’s gifts because…are they uncomfortable that they do not have them?
yes, bud, i am a believer, if believing that jesus is our perfect sacrifice, our high perfect high priest, making us pure to enter god’s presence. but he is more–and now i will incur that wrath of the systematics by what i have to say:
jesus is the first born, the prototype god-man, the first “born of the holy spirit” and the first “risen from the dead” with the resurrected body. now, something fundamental happened with adam’s and eve’s fall that killed the heart of man, making it evil, that only its rebirth by god’s spirit can make it alive. the mechanics of the defect are not important–it could be satan inserting a virus in man’s dna, or something else. regardless, we all have an broken heart until we are reborn by god’s spirit. jesus is the picture of man reborn with god’s spirit. acts 10:38 summarizes it: “he went about doing good and healing those under the power of the holy spirit.”
Chrystal said “I would rather hear you say you preach the gospel.”
To most Pentecostals tongues and signs and wonders is the gospel. They talk more about the Holy Spirit and power than they do Jesus. They put Jesus in the back seat.
Chrystal said “How can we have apostles today when they can not in any way fulfill the requirements for being apostles, namely, that they have seen Jesus face to face and walked with/learned from Him?”
Don’t forget Chrystal, most of the guys like the Benny’s and the Bentley’s have had many trips to Heaven where they seen Jesus face to face. LOL : )
I enjoyed your post arise my love,nailed it right on the head it did in regards 2 modern day prophets.We have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit 2 lead us guide us and speak 2 us,but many christians would rather listen 2 a man or woman who say they r a prophet of God and dont bother 2 test the words they r speaing.
“”I didn’t have a bad experience in the “pentecostal faith.” I was exposed to error.”"
amen. I didn’t have a “bad experience” either. I loved the people. But both pentecostal churches I attended taught the exact same stuff. Stuff that I later found out was not only unbiblical, but much of it was nothing more than man-made, thought up doctrine used to control and keep tabs on the church members. and the parts that did have “some” bible-base, were twisted and taken out of context. How oh how many times did i hear “if you only had enough faith, you would be healed”. How many times did i hear, “you have to ‘get the Holy Ghost’ and speak in tongues to be saved”. How many times was I told that if I didn’t cover my arms, or if I wore one piece of jewlery I was headed for hell. and every time I sinned, it was gone and I had to start all over again (re-recieve the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues). When I started faking the tongues to satisfy them, THATS when I knew “this is so wrong. this can’t possibly be what Christ intended”. Experience was big for them. One of the pastors at one of the UPC churches I attended (and I’m not kidding!!) was illiterate. He could not read. and had to have his wife down in the front row reading the bits of scripture he would preach about. I’m just glad I got out of it. Never in my Christian walk did i ever feel so in bondage and in chains, afraid that i would do one little thing and “mess up” and loose the Holy Ghost, and have to endure the embarressment of having it announced to the congregation (saw that too). Another pastor told a young married couple that they should only have sex to procreate, and that for any other reason was a sin, and they should also come to him and discuss it with him first. Smells kinda like Rome.
I keep hearing that the charismatic/pentecostal movement is the fastest growing segment of protestants as well. I too have pondered as to whether this is because the truth wins out or the delusion has come. As a member of the A/G, I “hear”, I cringe when I am lumped together with these whack-jobs.
highrpm – you are wrong on so many levels. But I think your comments are a rabbit trail – so I will move on.
CL – I think you are not coming off as defensive, but offensive. I have found this forum to be a wonderful place to share thoughts, ideas and learn from one another. You attacked the moderator – not a wise (let alone Godly) thing to do. You have to understand that people have different “interpretations” (for lack of a better term) of certain segments of the Bible. So long as their belief, hope and faith is in Christ, mixed with genuine repentance….well that puts us all on the same side. No need to argue.
I believe that God heals people today, but I prefer to use the, “trust – but verify” method. Don’t just tell me you were cured and expect me to shout “hallelujah” – go to the doctor and absolutely shock them with your complete cure. That doesn’t make me a nay-sayer…that is using the common sense the Lord gave all of us. And there are people who can medically verify that they were cured. Not a lot but a few – why only a few? If a miracle happened every day, wouldn’t it cease to be miraculous after a time?
One final thought: reading scripture, trusting the Holy Spirit to lead me in truth, and members on this forum have begun to re-shape my thinking. A little leaven really does negate everything. We must protect our witness. Thanks again to those who have lovingly communicated with me.
Mike A
C.L. Gregory,
Is this your church?
http://www.vwophx.org/
C.L.
OH and I just wondered… where did you go to Bible School and what level of the Greek language do you have?
And I’ll be upfront with you, I have NEVER ever heard the interpretation that you gave of scripture above and I am pentecostal as well and I have NOT been hurt by the church, in fact I have been active many years as a volunteer and staff member of a pentecostal church, but I to, as Chrystal have discovered much error in the teaching and doctrinal stand of the P.C.
I have a friend who has his Doctorate in the Biblical Greek language and he teaches at a pentecostal college in the pacific Northwest and we have been discussiing this whole area of the lack of or non existant of Greek in many of the “pastors” and who after leaving college seemed to get away from the original language (hmmm, tongues?)… and he stated to me…
it’s so amazing to me that Bible College and seminary students can’t wait to get away from Greek and then once they get into ministry understand that there is a real need to know how to do better exegesis rather than a word study here or there in a sermon.
So I am wondering your level of the Greek language to be able to interpret the scriptures the way you have in a few of the posts above??????
Let’s make it simple– Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life… period.
Too many of us who are in Christ are focusing on junk and garbage (dreams, foolish visions, crazy behavior and dead prophetic words), and not on the word of God for comfort and direction. I can’t even imagine how those who are not in Christ are coping; in our silliness, we are scaring away the lost. We have much to answer for, as we have become poor examples.
These are desperate times and desperate people do desperate things–we are afraid– we are terrified. Deep down we believe there really can’t be a God who loves us so much and cares for us so completely. We feel abandoned and forgotten and run to and fro– to anyone and anything to fill the abyss in our souls.
Father God, You alone are the Mighty One and Your plan will be done here as it is in Heaven. We pray that You give us strength to endure as we run the race. We ask for wisdom and discernment. Lord, forgive us for our foolishness. We praise and bless Your holy name and help us to trust in You alone. And we are thankful, Father, for Your Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth. We pray this in the precious name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen K
C.L…..thanks for taking the time to write back. In the past we have had people come in here who spout out some blather and then disappear. I’m not saying you’re spouting blather, mind you, I’m just saying some have come with their “hit and run” tactics because what they said didn’t stand up to Scriptural scrutiny.
I would like to continue on with just a couple of points. And again, thank you for your patience as we discuss this.
Just a quick note as well…I did attend a Pentecostal church for years and so I’m not talking out the side of my mouth either.
And I will say that I’m glad that you do NOT believe everything that the charismatic and Pentecostal churches have articulated to the masses.
As for the issue of tongues and the interpretation thereof, I think personally that this is a somewhat peripheral issue because to speak in tongues or not speak in tongues is most certainly NOT a salvation issue and those who wish to make it so have no idea what solid exegesis and sound doctrine are. It is a discussion (argument for some) that will continue until our dying day; of that I have no doubt. Where there is HUGE error in the Pentecostal and Charismatic circles (and it sounds like you’d disagree with them on this point) is where they say that UNLESS you speak in tongues, you are NOT filled with the Holy Spirit and as such, as not equipped for ministry. Well, that is pure rubbish and a doctrine of demons used to create confusion in the minds and hearts of those who never operate in that particular gift because they start thinking that they don’t have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and as such are disqualified from ministry. Well, last time I checked, and I’m sure you’d agree, 1 Cor. 12.11 says that the Spirit gives as He wishes and not everyone has the same gift. So, to say one doesn’t have the Holy Spirit because they haven’t spoken in tongues is to call Jesus a liar and to very wrongly divide the Word of Truth. What really matters is LOVE; not speaking in tongues. 1 Cor. 13.1 makes that crystal clear. And as for tongues being the “evidence” of being filled, I think that is totally wrong. The “evidence” was that they spoke in understandable languages to propagate the Gospel to those nearby when the Holy Spirit was given. I don’t believe it was “evidence” so much as it was the method used to share the Gospel to all within earshot and to begin growing the church. There is no need whatsoever for the Holy Spirit to show “evidence” of His indwelling. That makes salvation “experiential”, which it is clearly not. Salvation is forensic and comes by promise; not by the “evidence” of tongues. If we truly believe in the Trinity, then when we are saved, ALL THREE PERSONS of the Godhead dwell in us. The Holy Spirit doesn’t come later or else we really wouldn’t be sealed, as the Scriptures tell us. See 2 Cor. 1.21-22; Eph. 1.13.
As for sickness, I believe that we live in sinful and fallen bodies and I know you agree. As such, they are subject to all manner of ailments and that doesn’t mean sin in our lives. It’s just our fallen nature and our imperfect bodies. Paul was beaten, stoned, whipped, shipwrecked, etc., and I would be willing to bet that he was in a LOT of pain as a result. Was God then obligated to immediately take away his pain just because Paul would have prayed, asking in His name, to be healed from his cuts, bruises, headache, and such? Jesus told Ananias in Acts 9 that He would show Paul “how great things HE MUST SUFFER for my name’s sake.” That doesn’t sound like Jesus had the intention of responding to Paul’s invocation of the name of Jesus to heal him when he was hurting or otherwise. My whole point is that Christians suffer. Christians get sick. Christians are not exempt from the sinfulness that we inherited from Adam and that includes sickness and death from things other than sin in our lives. Sometimes God’s answers are NO. And I agree with you that unbelief CAN play a role in it but it’s not the ONLY role. The Word of Faith people believe with all their heart that when they pray for a new private jet that they should get it because Jesus is like their personal Santa Claus. They are asking IN HIS NAME. The obvious answer is NO. You summed up your response by saying, “So God heals who he wants to heal, but we have his promise that if we ask ANYTHING in his name, according to his will, he will do it.” My question would then be how do you reconcile these two statements being in one sentence together? The only logical answer is that sometimes God chooses not to heal EVEN IF WE ASK IN HIS NAME. The catch phrase there is “according to His will.” So, just the asking in His name isn’t sufficient if it is not according to His will. If His will is different than our invoking of His name to heal, is God a liar? Of course not. I think basically we agree on these points. As you said, “we are not always promised health, wealth and prosperity.” That’s really my entire point. And yes, I am VERY blessed today even though my company kicked me to the curb four months ago and my house has been foreclosed upon. And yet, I still live better than probably 90% of the world. My wife often wonders about my contentment in the midst of unemployment and financial uncertainty and the Lord continually reminds me of how He tends to the birds of the air and the flowers of the field and that I am worth much more than they are. I need not worry. The passage where he talks about worry is so awesome because He says in the matter of about 30 seconds worth of dialogue with his disciples in Matt. 6 that they need to stop worrying. In fact, the tense of the Greek shows that Jesus basically is saying, “If you’re worrying, knock it off” and also, “If you’re not worrying, don’t start.” Jesus cares for me and I am to cast ALL my cares upon Him.
Mark 16.17-18 is a great passage and the tongues is “glossa”, which is understandable language and not gobbledygook that is often so prevalent when people speak in “tongues.” Rambling on with “sallyboughtahonda” and “shakabonky” is a bunch of rubbish. The devil can also mimic this gift and if we are without understanding, how is one to tell the difference? I’d prefer to speak in English, thank you very much. Even Paul said he’d rather speak five words with understanding than ten thousand without it.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, the last church I went to was a pentecostal/charismatic church. I got sucked into the whole “signs and wonders” routine but it was WAY out of order, as so many pentecostal churches are today. Heck, just check out Youtube and do a search on pentecostal church services and you can have hours of entertainment as people make complete jackasses of themselves and call it “the anointing.”
And the latter rain issue. That whole “movement”, if you will, is so replete with error that it makes my head spin. The concept of the Holy Spirit being poured out in the last days is absolutely spot on. That I would agree with because it’s Scriptural. But some have turned it into a “movement” of sorts and it has devolved into all kinds of error and false doctrine. You know it too and you also see the gross heresy of those like Hinn, Jordan, and a plethora of others. I’m glad you didn’t come out in support of them.
As for the office of prophet in the New Testament church, I think a case could be made for them but I would like to know what a modern-day “prophet” thinks their role is in the church and which passages of Scripture they use to explain it and show it’s validity.
Christopher, once again, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and thank you for remaining amiable throughout the discussion.
In His service,
Mike
The modern apostles and prophets movement is the tree that produces such preposterous people such as Bentley with their even more preposterous tales. The Tree is Bad. Therefore, no good fruit can be plucked from it.
As was said earlier, there cannot be apostles anymore because the apostles were eyewitnesses of the Resurrected Christ. You cannot produce eyewitnesses after a thing or person that is testified of is gone and its actual witnesses are dead. The only thing that remains of them is their writings, which is exactly what we have.
The NAR et, al., represent a different Jesus and a different spirit. Those who follow them are lost and need to return exclusively to the written apostolic faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints. May God grant them repentance unto the acknowledgment of the truth so that they may recover themselves from the snare of the devil.
And yet…No matter how many times, this reprobate lies and manipulates his flock still follow. Still no verification of anything remotely miraculous. I always find it amazing…the profound lack of discernment. I have listened to Bentley an Joyner “attempt” to preach and teach. Quite honestly both are without much substance, their hollow falsehoods, words and actions are a demonstration that they are unregenrate, and have zero authority let alone an “anointing.”
Mike A, I honestly was not “attacking” the Mod and if that was how it came across, then I absolutely apologize because I don’t ever want to make it seem as I feel the OP is a non believer because she questions certain people in the faith, as I have stated over and over on many articles I write, we should challenge what’s happening in the church by those whose actions are not exactly correct scriptually. So, if I made anyone stumble on that, then I apologize.
Let me just say this and I will answer the other Mike’s comments and I’ll move on, but I confronted Jessa Bentley with a dream God gave me concerning Todd. Let me just say, this man will be judged and so I leave God’s judgement to the one who has both the power to destroy the body and the soul into hell. My letter to Todd can be found over the internet as it spread like wildfire, it’s called “Todd Bentley’s three wounds”.
I wish Chrystal well in her work, but sometimes I believe that people are motivated by past hurts and feelings and involvement and we need to be careful that we don’t attack everyone simply because of the actions of one or a few nuts in the bunch.
God bless.
Mike L.
Yeah, I’m not about “hit and run” tactics my friend as I’m about as honest as you get in my walk and I take everything very seriously. And you are right, we basically do agree on much of what you wrote, I just see certain things differently than some and that’s “okay”. My mandate is to preach the gospel and that’s it, nothing more. Now, how I do that is different than others. Yes, I do work in the prophetic and there is a difference in my work and say a Kim Clement. The fact is, I seperate myself from the false because it is false, there is no truth in what Kim says none. But if I learned anything a long time ago, it is this, if there is a false, there MUST be a real. Just because there is counterfeit $100 bills, does not mean we go out and start burning every $100 bill, agreed?
The problem is this – discernment. There is a genuine lack of discernment in the church today than ever before. The comment was made to me in a recent reply that said the reason why so many are flocking to the pentecostal/charismatic faith is because of a lack of discernment and I actually agree!! We don’t preach the word anymore because we have replaced the word with feel good messages. We don’t have pastors today, but instead, we have PHd’s in the pulpits. So, is it any wonder that since we don’t train our people, that when false signs and wonders do pop up, the mass goes after them? Jesus himself said that a wicked generation seeks after signs. But as I have stated over and over, if a move of God is real, then several things will happen, 1) the word will be preached, calling men to repentance, 2)signs will always follow but they will not surpass the word and 3) those men and women who do these things will always lead people to the cross – always.
You asked me, “As for the office of prophet in the New Testament church, I think a case could be made for them but I would like to know what a modern-day “prophet” thinks their role is in the church and which passages of Scripture they use to explain it and show it’s validity.”
It’s a good question and let me just answer it like this, speaking from someone who is called as a prophet, I don’t do anything unless God tells me. Our role in the church is simple, edification, correction and lead men to Christ. There are times when I will say something that brings a certain situation to light, but it’s always due to God trying to deal with that person. Let me give you a recent example that happened in one of my meetings. A young woman came in to the church where I was preaching, I did not know her or her friend, but I was being led to give her a word from the Lord pertaining to her direction. I then told her that she was in a relationship which was not of God and that if she continued to go that direction that she would find misery because it’s not the path God was wanting her to go. I then kept hearing the name Brad come into my spirit, so I asked her, “Who is Brad?” she looked at me and was stunned, she then told me it was her nephew, so I ministered to her. That evening, she told me that she rejected the warnings I gave her because although everything I told her was 100% correct, she refused it because she loved this man and she wanted to make it work. So, I did exactly what I was supposed to do, but it was refused.
There are many times when I will tell someone who is rejecting God or is in sin that God brought something to light. One major point in my life was when God woke me up and gave me a specific word about a certain Pastor whom I did NOT know at the time. God gave me everything to tell him and then to tell him that if he did not repent that he would face certain judgement. This Pastor was committing adultery, was living with a woman in his church and would not repent of it. I confronted him and let’s just say, the meeting did not go well. I was called everything you can imagine. But I remained faithful and told him that if he did not repent, he would face judgement. This man had a massive heart attack 3 months later, his church is virtually empty and he suffers terribly from health issues now.
My whole ministry is to preach the gospel as a last days prophet, to warn the church first that it’s diection is wrong, that its idolatry is equally wrong and that judgement is coming. My second is the lost and call them to repentance before the tribulation comes. And yes, I am a mid/post tribulation believer.
I hope that helps.
Good points Chrystal, Mike Ron etc —
Lord help us all have a firm Foundation so we can withstand the coming Tribulation…
Rev’s Kate and Rich,
You posted the following:
“These are desperate times and desperate people do desperate things–we are afraid– we are terrified. Deep down we believe there really can’t be a God who loves us so much and cares for us so completely. We feel abandoned and forgotten and run to and fro– to anyone and anything to fill the abyss in our souls.”
I would just say that I disagree with that. The rest of your post was right on the money and your prayer was right-on as well, but this middle paragraph is so very defeatist and against everything the Scripture says about who we are in Christ. I, for one, am not afraid; I am not terrified. Deep down I believe that I have a Father who loved me so very much that He gave His only begotten Son to die for me because of His incredible mercy and grace. The Bible tells us that we have not been given a spirit of fear but of power, of love, and of a sound mind. I refuse to take on the dark nature of your words. I don’t feel abandoned and forgotten at all. I don’t run around to and fro trying to fill my soul with anything, save for the knowledge of the truth of God as found in His Word.
That being said, if you were merely pointing out the condition of those who DON’T know Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, I agree, but if you are speaking in generalities about Christians, I would say that your are in error. The words you wrote are words of bondage to a believer and would only be fitting in a description of a non-believer. I would say that to an extent there are many who are believers and are walking around living defeated lives but the way it’s worded is in the all-inclusive tense and I will not number myself in that group. We are MORE than conquerors!!! We are a royal priesthood, a chosen generation!! Those aren’t titles for those you’ve described.
I don’t say this to be mean-spirited or spiteful. I just want to nip in the bud any negativity that might be applied to the body of Christ that would place us in such a dire place as you have painted. It just doesn’t sit well with me.
Thanks so much for your prayer that you posted!! We so very much need strength for endurance, knowledge, wisdom, discernment, and a deep love for the Body of Christ. Let us work together to stengthen the things that remain and to occupy until He comes!!
Even so, come VERY quickly, Lord Jesus!!
Grace and peace to you,
Mike
Super post, Mike. I understand your point and appreciate your comment.
God’s best… K