The blogosphere is all abuzz today with news that John Piper has invited Rick Warren to speak at his Desiring God 2010 National Conference. Ingrid Schlueter from Crosstalk blog reports:
Commentary – Ingrid Schlueter
It has been confirmed that Rick Warren will be a speaker at the prominent Desiring God 2010 Conference. According to Jonathan Parnell at the offices of the conference, John Piper reportedly met Rick Warren at the funeral for Ralph Winter, and that is how the invitation came about.
Jonathan Parnell was quick to tell me that Dr. R.C. Sproul and Dr. Al Mohler would also be speakers, as if to assure me that things couldn’t get too out of hand with them there. It appears that Rick Warren is going to be given the opportunity to respond to charges that he is non-doctrinal in his messages. Parnell told me that Rick Warren is “more doctrinal” than he appears. That would be news to untold numbers of Christians who have seen their churches abandon the biblical Gospel by jumping on the Purpose-Driven bandwagon.
Whatever Piper’s thinking is, it is plain that inviting Rick Warren to speak at his conference, giving him prime time to manipulate hearers and present himself as just another misunderstood leader, is a serious mistake. Piper’s years of credibility as a trustworthy minister of Gospel truth are being undermined by this decision.
I wholeheartedly concur. Are we to conclude from this decision that John Piper is in agreement with Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven theology? If so, is he giving Warren the platform at the Desiring God Conference to explain himself and win over the masses to his way of thinking? Piper’s invitation to Warren is an endorsement that may give many who are weak in the faith the idea that Rick Warren is a Biblically sound teacher. This decision on Piper’s part is very wreckless and damaging.
No doubt, many confused believers will be wondering what Piper could be thinking. I, for one, would like to know his current position regarding the Purpose-Driven theology of Rick Warren. Joel Taylor from 5 Point Salt informs us:
Dr. Piper will be hosting an “Ask Pastor John Live” session via Desiringgod.org tonight at 7.pm CT. where he will , perhaps, maybe, hopefully address the issue of inviting Rick Warren to speak at the DG 2010 National Conference.
Tune in and ask your questions here.
Hopefully he will address this issue then.
Update: Ingrid Schlueter posted this transcript of John Piper’s statement regarding Rick Warren on Facebook.
I do think he’s deeply theological. He’s a brilliant man. He wouldn’t have the church he does or the Peace Plan, or all the influence he does and of course the greatest sentence in the Purpose Driven Life is the first one isn’t it? It’s not about you, it’s about God. The Glory of God. So I don’t think he’s emergent. At root I think he is theological and doctrinal and sound.” ~Piper from the audio
Agreed.
This news saddens me more than anything else. Maybe John Piper found a friendship with Rick Warren. Nothing wrong with that. I understand via Fighting For The Faith’s Chris Rosebrough that Rick’s a real congenial person. Never the less, Rick Warren is a Neo-Marxist if there ever was one and really isn’t a Pastor so much as he’s a CEO. He doesn’t belong in the pulpit of a Bible believing Church and is ill suited to speak a contextual biblical message as he’s not a contextual kind of guy. If Rick Warren and his cronies such as Bill Hybels are allowed to influence what I thought was doctrinally strong Christianity in this way then all I can pray is this, “Come soon Lord Jesus, Come” God’s Peace, HE IS RISEN!
PIPED PIPER JOHN INVITES RICK WARREN HERETIC TO DG 2010
FIRST THE CLOSE WORK WITH EMERGENT CHURCH MARK DRISCOLL FOLLOWED BY A 8 MONTH LEAVE FROM MINISTRY DUE TO ” UNNAMED PRIDE ..? ” NOW HIS DESIRING GOD CONFERENCE HAS NOTED HERETIC PROSPERITY GOSPEL MONEY HUNGRY MEGACHURCH AUTHOR RICK WARREN AS A SPEAKER. WHAT’S SAD IS SO MANY YOUTH OF TODAY PASTORS OF TOMORROW FOLLOW PIPER’S HEDONIST DOCTRINE OF PREACHING TEACHING & WRITINGS ! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH JOHN, COME BACK TO YOUR FIRST LOVE !!
MRWBBIII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmkk1XjrGw
Rick Warren: Self professed member of the Council on Foreign Relations.
Nothing else needs to be said.
It’s really sad to watch John Piper fall into this trap. I really think this started years ago when he took Mark Driscoll under his wing. I believe John Piper has some serious issues that are beginning to be made known to the public. The bible says by their fruits we shall know them.I consider Piper a very dangerous wolf because he is so close to the truth.
We must pray for God to open his heart to the truth. While we are praying for Piper, we need to distance ourselves from him and warn our fellow Christians about his rebellion.
Piper has a reputation as a great teacher — but is Calvinist extraordinaire.. as is Sproul.
I take no doctrine from folks who say God chose me to eternal life but chose not my Mother and left her to go to hell. That is NOT the love of God!!! Nor good doctrine.
Warren has exhibited enough error, over and over to bar him from any platform.
In Jesus Christ eternally,
ExP(Jack)
I take my doctrine from scripture, not from my feelings.
The love of God is that He saves anyone of us wrethces at all. Amazing grace. As Christ said, “Father, I pray not for the world, but those You have given me…” and “No one can come to me except the Father draws him.”
So, does God draw everybody?
If He does, and people still go to hell, He fails.
If He doesn’t draw everyone, He is exercising His sovereign right to “do whatsoever I (God) please in the heavens and on the earth.”
As Paul states: Who are you, o man, who answers back to God?
I was terribly disappointed when John Piper endorsed Mark Driscoll and now it’s Rick Warren? Ugh.
Since when do we measure the soundness of one’s theology by the size of his church or magnitude of his worldly influence?
Didn’t Jesus say that many would be found on the wide road, and that the world would hate and persecute us for His name sake?
I guess it is time for Mr. Piper to take a long vacation and clear his head.
At first, I was confused about this article.
In 2007 I used to get John Piper’s daily e-mail/devotionals. They never really “hit home” per se but I got them and read them anyway. Then one day, by accident, I happened upon an article on Calvinism and lo and behold, there was John Piper’s name. So after realizing exactly what Calvinism was, and exactly what the people who were Calvinists believed, I discontinued getting Mr. Piper’s e-mail/devotionals.
So this brings me back to confused, I guess. I believe Rick Warren is highly confused – however, I truly also believe John Piper is highly confused as well. So why the fuss about them getting together?
i.e. I kind of have to agree with (Jack) above…
I have more questions than answers. Is Piper corrupt? First cozying to Driscoll and now to Relevant Rick??? Is Piper being revealed for who he really is or is he off-track and needing to be corrected? What harm will come to young Christians at seeing Warren in a group of ‘real’ preachers? Will Mohler and Sproul pull out of the conference? Should they? Should they use the conference as an opportunity to call out Piper, Warren , and others?
Is Rick Warren more doctrinal that he appears? Is snow warmer than it appears? If fire cooler than it appears? Is a lion less likely to eat you for lunch than it appears?
Could it be that God is in the process of answering our questions? Let’s watch to see …
God does choose who will be saved. Romans8:28-39, Romans9
John3:21-if anyone does choose Jesus it is because God has worked in that person so that they will choose.
This is a bunch of hogwash and “it ain’t fittin, just ain’t fittin.” No surprise of what Piper is doing- (given his blend of the mystical/reformed) Agreed that this will suck in untold numbers into the global church (which is the point, isn’t it?) via Piper and Warren, good buds that they are. It’s probably not going to happen- I pray that it does- but Sproul and Mohler and anyone else who is scheduled to speak, put out a statement, “We will not share a platform and dialouge with heretics or promote doctrines of devils” Simple. Piper says, ” I do think he’s deeply theological. He’s a brilliant man. He wouldn’t have the church he does or the Peace Plan, or all the influence he does….” Brilliant deduction, Piper …or should I say, Brilliant Seduction. I suppose next on the list, sharing the platform, will be Kim Clemet, with his talk of Reformation and elect (read his new online newsletter)…now there is a deep theologian!!!
While I don’t agree with inviting Rick Warren to speak at the Desiring God Confrence, I’m remarkably disappointed by the commenters who seem resigned to assign John Piper to the pit of hell for the invitation.
i.e. “I consider Piper a very dangerous wolf because he is so close to the truth.” Could you please document, from either his sermons or writing where he misses the doctrinal mark? Could you please explain which heresy he embraces?
I agree Oum Amir. I don’t consider Piper a wolf, but this decision of his is troubling. It’s perplexing to many.
Ex-preacher,
I agree that Warren has definitely exhibited enough error to not be allowed on a platform with solid Bible teachers. If they want Warren to give account of his beliefs, the place for that is NOT on the stage of “Desiring God.”
In His service,
Mike
I wonder if Piper and others would spend less focus on their “ministries” and “conferences” and more time shepherding the flock – the actual people that God has placed in their care, these ridiculous back slapping episodes would go away. Social networking, especially among pastors, can be a very dangerous thing for the people of God.
I won’t write off Piper either and I think what is really required is that we pray for him. We need to pray that he would see the danger in having Warren share a stage. Christians are notorious for killing their casualties and we have to remember that the Scriptures are profitable for doctrine, REPROOF, CORRECTION, and training in righteousness. This may be a time when someone close to Mr. Piper needs to REPROVE him and CORRECT him; not write him off as ineffective. Heck, even Jesus slapped Peter down for being a crack head now and then and that was CORRECTION.
As far as his Calvinistic views, I would just caution people to be careful of those labels and be careful of writing someone off just because they align themselves with Calvin or Arminius or other Bible scholars. In my experience, many people divide themselves based upon Calvin or Arminius or Luther but Paul in 1st Corinthians dealt with this. Some were saying “I am of Paul”, others said, “I am of Cephas.” Paul asked the rhetorical and revealing question, “Is Christ divided?” Of course He isn’t. Some people completely write off Calvin just because of ONE issue, predestination. Have you read Calvin’s exegesis of Ephesians and see what HE says about it and not what you’ve been told about it? Some Calvinists are more Calvinistic than Calvin was. Scripture is explicitly clear that predestination and foreordination are in the mind of God but NEVER WITHOUT HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE. That is a discussion for another thread though.
I DO take issue with equating the success of Pope Warren with being qualified to be on stage at an event like this. Using that same yardstick, I guess Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Creflow Dollar, Joyce Meyer, and other heretics, also need to be on stage spewing their heretical doctrine. Piper does need to be called on the carpet about that. And as for Warren being a “deep theologian”, just what exactly does that mean? Buddhists and Muslim clerics are “deep theologians” too. Being a theologian has to do with education; not heart condition. There is a VAST difference. I guess it could be said that the Pharisees were deep theologians too and we all know exactly what Jesus said about them. Just turn to Matthew 15.14 and you’ll see Jesus telling His disciples that they were blind leading the blind.
So, my prayer is that Mr. Piper will do an about-face on this.
In His service,
Mike
Forgive me if I reserve judgment until after April Fools’ Day is over. Ingrid’s initial post is dated for yesterday, but the announcement on Piper’s site is dated for today. Color me unconvinced as of yet that this is for real.
Let us not forget Piper’s recent decent into the Federal Vision heresy, or are we going to “just all get along’? Sorry, Chrystal, bur Piper has long ago fallen off into the deep end. Driscoll’s real hook is his use of sex from the pulpit and what a great appeal it is to the young, hormone ridden and likely lost people of our age. Piper comes across as the man with the new idea, he has a knack of expressing himself that can be very deceptive to those who do not study the Word. It’s almost to the point that he is the one that gives the church a “new revelation” of how God does business in this modern age.
As for Rick, well he’s just Rick, once a heretic, always a heretic. The grace of God has saved far worse than him, perhaps we should pray that God would save him.
Sproul and Mohler come complete with big yellow flags waving all around them. Both have shown a leaning and sympathy for Rome. Very disturbing. Sproul with his recent ten day rant on the catholic church on radio, did he ever say that the catholic church is heresy personified? Must have missed that part. And Mohler signing the Manhattan Declaration, an in your face catholic generated piece of garbage?
Maybe they will all do well together
Darrell:
Could you document this:
“Let us not forget Piper’s recent decent into the Federal Vision heresy”
please?
JOHN PIPER ON MARK DRISCOLL
And the downward spiral continues…………..
Oum Amir , here is a link about Piper and Federal Vision heresy (just in case Darrel doesn’t get back on board…he could most likely give you a better resource- but this will get you started)http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=11856
Darrel is right..and glad he brought it up-on Sproul and Mohler- with the Catholic leanings…(leanings-that’s putting it in nice terms!!- will leave it at that. In regards to my earlier post- well, I’m kicking myself in the head even thinking of the possibility (duh) of Sproul and Mohler doing anything but having a nice patty cake session. Yea, they will all get along fine….and nope- I’m not falling for the little speech at the end of Piper’s “Why I invited my best pal, chum ‘ol chum, Warren ” video….the part about agreeing to disagree. Who is he trying to fool? A spectacular spectical —all the Popes on stage at once.
Mr Piper – not surprised
Mr Mohler – not surprised
Mr Sproul – somewhat surprised, alas, seemingly, yet another bites the Roman Road dust!
Mr Warren – Global Pied Piper … “Road Home to Rome”
Matthew 7:15-16
Follow Christ alone.
Karen Berean
Ex-Roman Catholic
Odd, the continued reference to Calvin when it comes to the doctrines of grace, as though Calvin invented them. They had been around for 1,500 years before Calvin and for some reason he gets the “credit.” In any case it’s about time American’s jettison the me-centered dribble of the self-help gospel, which really is another gospel.
Piper is now dangerous from what I can see. When you lay down with false teachers you come up with the stink of being false yourself. And Piper has violated God’s Word in associating himself with the likes of Driscoll & Warren.
2 John 6-11
6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh This is the deceiver and the Antichrist.
8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.
I’m so glad that people are sharing things about these guys. Some of it I’ve heard and some of it I haven’t. Until yesterday I’d never heard of the Federal Vision idea. I’ll definitely be looking that one up! Thanks to Darrel for pointing that out!
After reading about some of the stuff these guys are dabbling in, I am left scratching my head because these are people (other than Pope Warren) that I’d have thought would know better and would be some of the first to point out heresies creeping in. It’s really quite flabbergasting.
I had to send an email to Skip Heitzig of Calvary Chapel today because of who he is having on his church stage for the worship conference coming up. He has Leonard Sweet, a known New Age sympathizer and author of a book full of heresy and mystical drivel. What has happened to discernment, people? Why are those who for so long have been considered pillars in the faith gone the way they have??? It could certainly be very disheartening to young believers who look up to these guys as mentors.
Sad. Very sad indeed.
In His service,
Mike
Pope Warren says we should be thinking “It’s not about me….It’s about making the world a better place.” Hmmmmm…..MY bible says that this world will pass away and the lusts thereof and God will burn it with fire and then create a new Heaven and a new Earth. Where does making the world a better place fit into that? Just watch the video above that MRWBBIII posted. You can hear it right from Rick’s mouth.
And ladies, get a load of that lady in the video that uses child birth in her analogy. Something just doesn’t sit right about that woman. Sheesh.
In His service,
Mike
Well, let’s keep speaking the word in truth. Those whom God has called WILL be “snatched out of the fire” as we continue to share truth, all the while, God continues to turn them over to their base minds… deceived deceivers… sad but true….
Birds of a feather…
There is no biblical justification for running with heretics when it is concering the things of God. Paul says:
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Warren even called the Lord = allah when making a prayer in front of your president.
Rick Warren spends $320 million to purchase the New Orleans Saints football franchise.
Check out the link to find out why, what do you think?
http://larknews.com/january_2006/secondary.php?page=1
I haven’t been able to find any reliable confirmation of this.
I cannot endure false doctrine, however neatly it may be put before me. Would you have me eat poisoned meat because the dish is of the choicest ware? It makes me indignant when I hear another gospel put before the people with enticing words, by men who would fain make merchandise of souls; and I marvel at those who have soft words for such deceivers…Their powerless theology cannot of itself arouse sufficient enthusiasm to enable them to build a mousetrap at the expense of their admirers. -Charles Spurgeon
A pastor writes a book. The book becomes a runaway best-seller. The pastor becomes an overnight sensation and influences millions. The book is read, studied, and idolized, and replaces the Bible in church, Sunday School, and Bible meetings.
Later, when it is learned that the book introduces Christians to a counterfeit belief system, Christians speak out against the book and try to reason with the pastor and his followers. The pastor grins and shrugs his shoulders. His followers rally around him and shout “Stop attacking and judging my pastor!”
To make the truth known, Christians produce articles, books, and videos to warn against the book, but the book continues to sell like hot-cakes. The pastor, the book, and his counterfeit belief system, continue to gain popularity.
The book appeals to a wide variety of non-Christians–from cults to heretics– and is billed as the best thing since sliced bread. It is placed center-stage in online and walk-in Christian and secular bookstores worldwide. Christians complain and warn, but the book helps the bookstores stay afloat financially.
The book spawns other books, programs, and curriculums. Corporations and organizations are formed around the book’s teachings. Politicians are effected by the book. The pastor has an open door to prominent leaders worldwide–Christian and non-Christian alike.
Solid, Bible-based Christians meet with the pastor and try to reason with him. The pastor has heard all of the concerns and Biblical references. He continues to grin and shrug his shoulders. He knows that for every one follower lost there will be ten more to come on board.
Years later, when the controversial smoke has cleared, a once-thought Bible-based Christian invites the pastor to a conference JUST TO HEAR WHAT THE PASTOR HAS TO SAY.
The pastor, who authored the book, which caused all of the controversy and deception in the first place, grins and shrugs his shoulders, and says, “Okay.” The once-thought Bible-based Christian refuses to listen to the warnings from his fellow Christians. He plays nicer and wiser than God, compromises, lends credibility to the pastor and his book, makes excuses, and endangers the spiritual welfare of believers.
Sadly, and most importantly, the once-thought Bible-based Christian refuses to humble himself, swallow his pride, and heed the warnings of Scripture:
“Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned” (Titus 3:10-11).
“If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds” (2 John 1:1-11).
“Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting” (Romans 16:17-18).
“DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE UNFRUITFUL DEEDS OF DARKNESS, BUT INSTEAD EVEN EXPOSE THEM; FOR IT IS DISGRACEFUL EVEN TO SPEAK OF THE THINGS WHICH ARE DONE BY THEM IN SECRET” (Ephesians 5:11-12).
Who will be the next in line to compromise? But, who will hold the line for Jesus Christ and the truth of His word?
Bud Press
JOHN PIPER ON RICK WARREN DESIRING GOD 2010 SERMON JAM
Karen, great post!
IWTT, you are correct, the doctrines of Grace should be used
instead of the term “Calvinist”, as they came NOT from any man.
This is why I call myself a “Biblicist” and not a Calvinist.
(although I do believe in all 5 points)
Welcome to Piper’s “Christian Hedonism”, where you can claim the Reformation, and wallow in the pleasures of such things as: foul language, cussing, sexually explicit teaching, mock Jesus Christ, deny the Doctrine of Justification By Faith, deny the very definition of the ecclessia, deny Jesus Christ as the sole way to Heaven, deny Scripture as the sole authority for all things pertaining to life and godliness. Nothing like “Christian hedonism”, eh? Yeah, boy, God sure is delighting in all of Piper’s hedonism. NOT.
Bud is absolutely right on target! Some of us have been shouting for years that the Pied Piper is cancerous to Christainity, but no one listened. God calls us to separation for a reason and Piper is making the case well. Piper doesn’t believe in it and it has borne fruit in his “hedonism” of offering his cussing, sexually explicit, false-gospel pastor-friends whom he defiantly defends.
Piper needs more than a mere eight months away (and he needs to cancel ALL his speaking engagement including the DG conference). His vague “pride issue” he spoke about recently is well intact. He not only isn’t teachable, he’s arrogantly defiant. This has been his pattern for years now.
Daniel Chew u talks about the Doctrine of Separation in this article: http://puritanreformed.blogspot.com/2010/04/piper-warren-and-doctrine-of-separation.html
Bud Press,
OUTSTANDING POST!!!! Do you mind if I cut and paste your response for a fellow believer who is singing Warren’s praises? I’m explaining the error of the purpose-driven drivel and of Warren’s false and powerless gospel and your post sums it up quite nicely.
In His service,
Mike
Mike L.:
Thank you, and God bless you, and please feel free to reproduce anything I write as the Lord leads. This applies to others on this blog too.
Also, the articles that I write and post on my website are free to reproduce. Please see the CRS Article Reprint Guidelines at http://www.christianresearchservice.com/CRSArticleReprintGuidelines.htm
By the way, when time permits, contact me at admin@christianresearchservice.com , and let’s touch base with each other.
To God be the glory,
Bud Press
Spurgeon on the topic of separating from false teachers:
http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2010/03/shall-we-fraternize-with-those-who-bury.html :
Quote:
I have not much patience with a certain class of Christians nowadays who will hear anybody preach so long as they can say, “He is very clever, a fine preacher, a man of genius, a born orator.” Is cleverness to make false doctrine palatable? Why, sirs, to me the ability of a man who preaches error is my sorrow rather than my admiration.
I cannot endure false doctrine, however neatly it may be put before me. Would you have me eat poisoned meat because the dish is of the choicest ware? It makes me indignant when I hear another gospel put before the people with enticing words, by men who would fain make merchandise of souls; and I marvel at those who have soft words for such deceivers.
“That is your bigotry,” says one. Call it so if you like, but it is the bigotry of the loving John who wrote—”If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
There are some with whom we should have no fellowship, nay, not so much as to eat bread; for though this conduct looks stern and hard, it is after the mind of Christ, for the apostle spake by inspiration when he said, “If we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
According to modern efficiency he ought to have said, “Let him be kindly spoken with in private, but pray make no stir. No doubt the thought was original, and we must not question his liberty. Doubtless, he believes the same as we do, only there is some little difference as to terms.”
This is treason to Christ, treachery to truth, and cruelty to souls. If we love our Lord we shall keep his words, and stand fast in the faith, coming out from among the false teachers; nor is this inconsistent with charity, for the truest love to those who err is not to fraternise with them in their error, but to be faithful to Jesus in all things.
End quote.
Piper is sinning. We aren’t even to be friends with false teachers.
In another note, Piper uses the old canard about secondary separation issues. He claims that if he doesn’t separate from Warren, we should be tolerant of him even is we do, labeling is as an area of disagreement.
That’s wrong. The reason I will separate from Piper isn’t primarily that he associates with Warren. I separate from Piper because Piper is sinning. He is sinning because he associates with false teachers. It started with Driscoll.
It’s growing, isn’t it?
I knew it was only a matter of time before Piper would show
his true colors, remember a leopard cannot changed his…..my
pastor always liked some of what Piper wrote/said, but he always
said something was not quite right and he couldn’t put his finger on it.
He is now in Heaven with the Lord and I remember so clearly his
words of warning and admonition. Praise God for men with boldness
to swim against the current.