Benny Hinn Makes Statement About Divorce

In this video, Mr. Hinn speaks of the shock the divorce filing brought him and his family, as well as Suzanne’s family.  He maintains there was no immorality, and that Suzanne has no Biblical grounds to divorce him.  He vows to continue to preach, and asks his partners to pray for Suzanne, his family, as well as Himself.

It struck me that Hinn made sure the public knew that this was all Suzanne and that he seems oblivious as to why this is happening.  It has been my experience that something as big as divorce casts its shadow before it, and it doesn’t happen in the dark.  But, Hinn’s statement doesn’t mention any warning signs – indeed, it sounds as if it caught him off guard.  He only mentions that Suzanne has been under great stress, but makes no mention of any marital trouble or separation that may have led up to her decision to file for divorce.

Before you comment on this video, please keep in mind that it does not glorify our Lord to make presuppositions about the cause of the divorce since no reason has been given.  I have deleted comments of this nature and will again.  I hate situations like this in anyone’s life, and know it has to hurt – especially the children.

Update:  This was pointed out in the comments section, and I wanted to post it here.  Suzanne Hinn has undergone a radical makeover since her “Holy Ghost enema” days.  Wow.  If I’d have run into her on the street I wouldn’t have known her.  Take a look.

Before

After

This entry was posted in Discussion, Heresy, Word of Faith and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

64 Responses to Benny Hinn Makes Statement About Divorce

  1. Anne says:

    I’m no fan of Benny Hinn, but I do pray that his marriage doesn’t end in divorce.

  2. cliffedens says:

    Such, imho, scripted piety on the part of his cohorts. That being said, we should pray for the following. That these men would repent of their self serving so called ministry. That this marriage would be reconciled. Finally that all involved would seek the forgiveness of sins found only by the blood of Jesus.

  3. Teddy says:

    I notice that Suzanne Hinn has her own ministry ( and how different does she look!). Benny Hinn has put his ministry ahead of his marriage, he would garner more “respect” perhaps if he said he was taking some time out to try to repair his marriage.

    Perhaps they have both put their “ministries” ahead of their marriage?

    http://www.purifyingfire.org/index.htm

    Voices
    Paul Bortolazzo on Benny Hinn accused…
    Elaine on Benny Hinn accused…
    Paul Bortolazzo on Righteous Judgment
    Paul Bortolazzo on Righteous Judgment
    Laura on The Female Kim Clement
    PG on Benny Hinn accused…
    Recogniser of TRUTH on Just who are the demonize…
    pjmiller on Righteous Judgment
    Paul Bortolazzo on Benny Hinn accused…
    pjmiller on Benny Hinn accused…

    Archives

  4. Teddy says:

    Sorry about the words under my comment – I posted the same comment elsewhere!

  5. Jimmie Krack Korn says:

    The fruit of the the WoF ministry is often time devastating to the preacher….William Braham went crazy and told everyone he is the angel of the Apocolypse, Paul Cain became a homosexual, Bob Jones became an adulterer and a drunk, Ted Haggard Pres of the evangelical assoc. became a homosexual and a meth addict, Jim Baker became a drug addict, thief, adulterer, divorced, Tammy Faye died with her make-up on at a young age from cancer, Todd Bentley became a drunk and an adultererand divorced, Paula White is twice divorced and left a church to die….addicted to plastic surgery and vanity, Earl Paulk died a gross adulterer including incest, and a child molestor, Jimmy Swaggert was caught TWICE with prostitutes, Oral Roberts died with a 10 million dollar hospital sitting empty because Tusla never needed it but ‘God told him to build it,’ bilking millions from viewers, Oral’s brother is embattled with a money laundering scam and his wife was caught having sex with a bunch of young men, that is off the top of my head!!!

  6. Mr. PSb says:

    This is sad, divorce is NEVER a good thing regardless of who it happens to. I also pray that Benny Hinn repents of his false doctrine as well. In moments like these, its easy to overlook the fact that he has lead countless astray with his false teaching. Nevertheless, I am saddened by what has happened to his marriage and hope there can be resolution.

  7. Denise says:

    Well that PR move was all about Hinn saving face and his continued blasphemy against Christ Jesus. If I hear “precious” one more time from that vicious wolf, I’ll vomit.

    Its telling that he won’t let a little thing like a troubled marriage (they’ve been separated for several weeks) or a divorce will stand in his way. Is that a surprise from the man who claims to heal thousands but hasn’t enough faith to heal his own marriage?

    His color choice was no accident either. I guess black is supposed to tell us he’s in a somber mood. I’m sure the white outfits will come out of the closet in his next “crusade”. Just wait until he blames Satan for this “attack” against his “ministry”.

    As for Suzanne, she’s fallen victim to the Women Preacher fad of bleach blonde hair, lots of make-up, and glaring white teeth. Watch out Pastor Paula White, you’ve got new competition. I knew she’d get her own ministry. These false brethern are so predictable.

  8. Bud Press says:

    This may have been voiced elsewhere, but Benny Hinn claims to be a prophet of God. He claims to communicate one-on-one with “Jesus” and the “Holy Spirit” on a regular basis. IF this were true, why wasn’t Benny Hinn informed about Suzanne’s filing for a divorce through a “vision” or “dream” or “word” or “visitation” months ago?

    Bud Press

  9. Robert L. says:

    M
    Benny Hinn professes to be taken completely by surprize by the recent chain of events – he didn’t have a clue ? Thats makes 2 people we’ve seen this week make their scripted confessions before the public – Benny Hinn & Tiger Woods. Both seemed disingenuine. Hinn is actually really dumb, self absorbed, or hes lying thru his teeth. His wife now has her own ministry called, ” Purifying Fire International ” a ministry devoted to orphans and widows in their trouble, of whom she has taken it upon herself to become a statistic and international spokesman. ( Maybe part of her ministry is to make available to ‘ widows in their trouble ‘ total makeover packages, costing thousands of dollars.)

    On the PFI website Suzanne states ” PFI recently purchased a living room set for a single mother who did not have furniture for her and her small child. Thank you for your donations that helped in a spiritual, as well as practical way. The mother was overwhelmed and overtaken with tears of gratitude ‘

    Wow, what a wonderful righteous act by Suzanne Hinn’s ministry. I am sure she will purchase thousands of livingroom suites for the unfortunate once she gets her multimillion dollar piece of the Hinn settlement pie.

    The real story will come out soon enough. But like Tiger’s fans and the rest of the TBN fanclub, as long as they get the job done who cares about someones moral failures and indiscretions. Tiger will come back stronger than ever, and Hinn will fire up the healing line again.

  10. Christian B says:

    A prophet who could not foresee his own divorce, even though he claims to speak to Jesus and the Holy Spirit on a very frequent basis! Mmmmmmmmm…………Wake up followers of this false prophet, open your eyes, study the Holy Bible. I’m sure his wife will let the cat out of the bag very soon and all will be revealed.

  11. seeker3k says:

    “Remarriage”: Rituals by day, rituals by night.

    Both Benny and Suzanne Hinn are involved with sorcery.

    An important step to increase the annointing they have from the false christs they follow is for them to desecrate their marriage vows.

    This will be the actual reason for the divorce proceeding.

    After the divorce completes they will probably both enter in to adultery covenants with others (“remarry”), and this will increase their annointing from the devil.

    Therefore you can expect to see some serious magic being channelled through Benny Hinn in future:

    2 Thes 2:9-10 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing.

    This is the reason why sorcerers (eg. Todd Bentley) have divorces and “remarriages”.

    The only reason that people divorce is to be able to “remarry” (formalised adultery), otherwise they would just separate (live in different places), but retain their married status.

    Link> Malachi 2:11-16 “…..A detestable thing has been committed in Israel……You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them…..You ask, “Why?” It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant……So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.”

    Both Benny and Suzanne Hinn are proceeding to break faith by participating in divorce proceedings.

    However the real consummation of their wickedness will be the “remarriages” to come.

    Sexual immorality (adultery/fornication/perversion) is a known initiation rite for satanic covens, as a desecration against the marriage relationship instituted by the God of Genesis 1:1 Link> Mark 10:6-9.

    If church people are carrying out acts of unfaithfulness against marriage that represent the same unfaithfulness as satanic covens performing immoral rites “at midnight with candles”, the end result is the same.
    The church people might cover their unfaithfulness with “remarriage” ceremonies in churches (during the daytime “with candles on a church altar”), but God is never fooled with dressing up sin to look holy, so people are just fooling themselves to be participating.

    This problem is more widespread in the church than just Benny Hinn.
    Divorce and “remarriage” has been a growth industry in churches everywhere for many years, supported by false teaching and promotion of “love”, “unity”, and “justice” ahead of truth.

    God’s grace is being perverted by these practices: Jude 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality………

    “Remarriages” (binding to another while a previous marriage spouse is still alive) are actually adultery covenants, and their occurrence in churches invites the devil in, including increased supernatural power from him (seduced by a counterfeit “angel of light” – 2 Cor 11:14).

    Evil covenants (eg. adultery covenants) should be renounced and the relationships they affirm abandoned, even if losing the benefits is inconvenient or causes suffering.
    Suffering for the cause of righteousness is affirmed repeatedly in the Bible.

    The Bible commands that “believers” who will not recant from practicing sexual immorality should be expelled from Christian fellowships: link> 1 Cor 5:9-13

    In Old Testament (old covenant) times they were stoned to death.

    In New Testament (new covenant) times it is “go and sin no more” Link> John 8:3-11

    Unfortunately, when grace is perverted (Jude 1:4) that becomes “go in peace”.

    That is the counsel of “the lawless one”, where the law of “you shall not commit adultery” is replaced with “nobody is perfect”.

    That is the kind of “non judgemental” “ear tickling” that is leading many in the church astray:

    2 Tim 4:2-5 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

  12. Mathew B. says:

    You make some very good points. But to say that the only reason folks divorce is to remarry is quite the stretch if you ask me. You certainly can not know what the true reason for a divorce is unless you are God and you are all knowing. I will say that Benny is a heretic and a false teacher which is one in the same. But to say folks divorce simply to remarry is a wrong observation.

  13. Mathew B. says:

    I encourage you to look me up on facebook and take a picture of my sinful remarriage as well. I guess I should divorce and sin again so I won’t be sinning with my new wife. I must be practicing witchcraft as well. If you knew how I have struggled with this and how I have been condemned, not by God, but by so called church folk, you would see how sinful your behavior is. I do stand for truth and often times get debates going for standing on the truth. But to say I am living in an adulterous covenant is preposterous. Not to mention I was asked to leave and my ex wife remarried before I did. I sure hope you never are asked to leave or have marital troubles.

  14. seeker3k says:

    The only reason that people divorce is to be able to “remarry” (formalised adultery), otherwise they would just separate (live in different places), but retain their married status.

  15. Mike L. says:

    Seeker3k,

    I think you are WAY off base here. You have thrown away the baby with the bathwater and have wrongly assumed that the cause for divorce is so that a person can remarry. As Matthew B said, that’s preposterous. My wife abandoned me and divorced me. Does that make me a sinner entering a covenant of adultery or fornication because TODAY I am getting married again? Yes, at 3 PM Pacific Time I will be remarrying. Did I ask my ex-wife to abandon me so that I could marry another?? Rubbish. The Lord placed a new woman in my life whom I love with all my heart and we serve the Lord together. There ARE valid reasons for divorce. Yes, God hates divorce, but He did make provision for it under certain circumstances. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t come with sorrow (I was with my ex-wife for 26-1/2 years) but it doesn’t mean I can’t remarry. Would you rather a person burn with passion? Would you rather I just leave my new wife at the altar and tell her, “Life goes on….” and call her a fornicator and adultress? More rubbish.

    What would you tell my friend whose ex-husband held her hostage in her home and beat her relentlessly because of his jealousy? She is a Godly woman with a now-former abusive ex-husband. Should she have remained and stayed in fear for her life and probably ended up dead? Did she divorce him because she wanted to remarry? NO. She divorced him (and remains single to this day) because she feared for her life…and with good reason. She had to be placed into protective custody and had to basically disappear from the radar, so to speak, so that he wouldn’t track her down and kill her, as he had alluded to. Should a Godly woman stay with a man like that?

    I’m not advocating divorce at all. I never thought I’d be remarrying because I always felt (and still do) that marriage is once for life. But I can’t control everything. What I DO know is that the Lord will bring beauty from ashes and the prayer and heart’s desire of myself and my bride-to-be is that our lives would bring all glory to God because that’s what EVERYTHING is about. It’s all about God receiving glory and so in the midst of our circumstances, we are dedicating our lives, our children, our everything to the Lord and we want nothing more than to see our Father high and lifted up in our lives and that He alone would receive glory.

    In His service,

    Mike L.

  16. Jimmie Krack Korn says:

    “Remarriage”: Rituals by day, rituals by night.

    I believe what “Seeker” is trying to say is this. All those offended by those remarks about divorce are probably Christian individuls who suffered greatly during that time. I believe Seeker was not putting you guys in the same catagory as the occultist, and avowed and self-proclaimed necromancer Benny Hinn. When you study the occult, and the demonic, and understand about what witchcraft practitioners do then you can understand what Seeker3k was saying. For instance acts of homosexuality are required in MOST forms of witchcraft, and all of Satanism…to recieve power from Satan. That which is an abomination to God is rewarded and encouraged by Satan. So those who perform certain acts that are renounced by God, are given power through those acts, homosexual practice, human sacrifice, etc. by Satan. Hitler did this, Allesteir Crowley wrote extensively on this, Jack Parsons did this…as well as many practicing witches and Satanists. They recieve power from Satan for deeds that are blaspemous to God.
    Benny Hinn is an admitted necromancer…he said “I recieve my anointing in the graveyard while talking to the dead, decaying corpses.” (OF Kathryn Kulhman and Amiee Simple Macpherson) ,. Those are Benny’s words! HE also continues to prophecy in the name of God although all his prophecies have been false. (And done in the flesh) He has never had a genuine medically proven and documented healing EVER! He skewers the Word of God stating/implying that his revelations are new and more relevant the scriptures. He promotes ecumenicalism the drawing all religions together and is enamoured of Catholicism and the Pope. Every book ever written by Hinn has been “pulled’ and rewritten to remove unscriptural information. Some could not even be reprinted because it contained such falsities.
    With this in mind it is not a stretch to consider Benny as a servant of Satan who appears as a “minister of righteousness.” Or as one of the false teachers, leaders, prophets that Jesus spoke of in Matt. 24. in which case he gets his power from Satan and is rewarded by acts opposing the Word of God.
    There are many resources avaiable to research this for yourselves. Dave Hunt, Justin Peters. The “Confusing World of Benny Hinn” DVD The 3 Faces of Benny Hinn, and more. Also read and study about the occult and the demonic realm to understand how they operate.

  17. Mike L. says:

    Hi Jimmie KK,

    You may be right as to what Seeker was “trying” to say but then he made a second post re-affirming what seems to be his heart-felt belief after Matthew B. posted in response to his original post. It seems to me that he isn’t singling out Benny Hinn into a seperate category. He seems to have grouped all of those who have suffered through divorce into the same category as those who want to remarry and got divorced for no other reason. It seems quite clear that he has only one category and has put us all into it. And so, that makes me and everyone else here who has gone through divorce, a “formalized adulterer” (that must also be in the book of Second Opinions in the Reader’s Digest Bible) and schemers who merely wanted a different mate. That is the biggest crock of rubbish I have ever heard concerning divorce. Divorce is not good but the reasons don’t boil down to his ridiculous conclusion. Notice TWICE that he said it was the ONLY reason. He obviously is out of touch with reality here. Someone would have to know my heart and my circumstances before they could even begin to understand all that surrounded my divorce and I’m sure anyone else here who has gone through one would say the same thing.

    In His service, (if I can still be in His service now that I a formalized adulterer)

    Mike

  18. Craig Lee says:

    Jimmie KK:

    I’m with Mike L. on this. Until “Seeker3k” clarifies his stance I can only take his words as written.

    Seeker3k:

    Are you of the “covenant partner” belief that each and every 1st marriage is the only one God recognizes?

  19. Robert L. says:

    Mike L.

    I truly commiserate with you and the difficulties you have gone thru. Now you are ready to begin life again with a new partner, one who loves the Lord as you do. To suggest that people divorce to get remarried ONLY is just not so.
    What you say ‘ feels ‘ right, however, we just had the divorce/remarriage argument a few weeks back and no one really spoke in defence of divorce/remarriage ( while the first spouse is still living ) and was able to support it from a Biblical perspective.
    I can find lots of evidence in support of the “covenant partner” belief that each and every 1st marriage is the only one God recognizes, but could you please show me from God’s word where 2nd marriages can indeed become ‘ lawful ‘ ones ?

    Honestly, I’m not trying to be flip here with you here – if as a Chrisitian you are satisfied that God has brought this person to you to share life with, how did you come to this conclusion ?

  20. Marie W says:

    I think God makes a provision with his grace. It is difficult enough for a person to be rejected by their partner or go through abuse. What is worse is trying to walk in the Christian life after and being downtrodden by these “Covenant People”, who themselves haven’t gone thru the life shattering “earthquake” yet. Want to help someone who has gone thru a terrible divorce, just fellowship with them and offer your support. Let them know that God is on their side. I am happy for Mike L.

  21. NCM says:

    My prayers are to Benny and the children, as well as Suzanna..i pray that may he (God) bring restoration to the Hinn family.

  22. Bona says:

    How a man can be a good leader to a big flock if he could not well-manage the smallest flock of his (the family)?
    John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
    For centuries, The Spirit of Jesus had been grieved for those who do not use the given authority from the Kingdom of God to cast the ‘wolf’ out of their lives, resulting that the devil had been free to scatter christian families (including Benny Hinn’s).
    We could not see the devil by our eyes, but spiritually we can observe his work. Every conflict (including those in christian families) is a wrok of the devil.
    Matt.12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    Therefore it is a very good advice that every christian must cast the devil daily, even that we could nit see the devil! First thing in the morning, before Satan can put bad ideas in your mind (check John 13:2).
    A young man challenged me once: “Show me the verse that we must cast the devil daily!”
    My answer was: “Young man, we must live by verses and WISDOM! Do you drive away mosquitoes only after it bites you? We used to prevent the mosquitoes from biting us, beforehand, didn’t we?
    The devil is a much more dangerous affair than mosquitoes. So we must use the authority given by Jesus to cast out devil, DAILY, before he strikes you! And unused authority will be like unused knives, blunt and corroded… and then useless!”
    Be blessed, dear readers!

  23. Kay says:

    I suppose we must now all ask ourselves the ever important, age-old question…

    “Do blondes really have more fun?”

    K

  24. Denise says:

    Bona,

    I’m a bit perplexed at your comments and have some questions for you for clarity.

    Before I begin, I’d like to know if you agree with this definition of the Triune Godhead: Within the one being that is God, there eternally exists three co-equal and co-eternal, and co-existant persons, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    I’m wonder if we’re on the same page on something fundamental, so that’s why its my first question.

    Also, I am not sure how you define a “Christian”, as you place Benny Hinn into that catagory. Hinn has a false gospel and false Jesus, and therefore is lost and under God’s condemnation (see Gal. 1:8-9). So how would you define a Christian?

  25. smilesback says:

    I wish Mike L. the best in his new marriage. After 26+ years, people that are servants of Christ, don’t normally throw that away –unless they fall into willful sin. But if one doesn’t, and they have tried and tried, then the rest of us need to back away, knowing we don’t know all the dynamics of a tumultuous marriage.

    I have listened to countless people tell me their marriage woes and they certainly are not wishing for divorce. They wish and pray for reconciliation, and when it just torturously eludes them, they feel it best for both (and for the others affected) to divorce. Otherwise, children have to watch the constant fighting –and yes, abuse –some horrific. And I mean from Christians who live upper-class lifestyles… It’s not just what some think as being only a low-class problem. Also, friends and relatives are inconvenienced constantly, by worrying for them, as well as being stood up because the jerk spouse was out drinking or just being mean –saying he or she was suddenly sick, or didn’t feel like going, etc.

    How about when one spouse gets the whole family in debt and just keeps making foolish (or even unethical) choices with money? How about when one spouse takes drugs? How about when one spouse won’t cooperate with the discipline of a teen who allows his drinking buddies over to the home, or allows the daughter to spend the night at her boyfriend’s house? All this, from spouses who have themselves slipped away from obedience to God’s Word after having been closely following Him before! And some from preachers still in the pulpit!

    The reasons are endless for why someone feels they cannot sanely live with another. Divorce was granted by Moses because of the hardness of hearts. Sometimes one heart just grows increasingly hard or rebellious, and if even God can’t stop people from turning from Him, then we are not to expect that a frail human man can stop his spouse’s heart from turning from him –even if she hasn’t turned to another in adultery, but has turned to the world, sin, or another idol of the heart.

    Divorce is horrible, but so are some marriages. “…a man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.” (1 Cor. 7:15) Yes, the remarriage thing is the issue, but we also know that in the perfect Garden, before sin had even come in, God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone.” (Gen. 2:18) Are we going to say that these divorced people (who tried exceedingly hard to make it work), are destined to live alone –because WE have deemed that it IS good for man (or woman) to be alone? Thankfully, we serve a God who’s Word says, “Mercy triumphs over judgement!” (James 2:13) And those who judge harshly about things they know nothing about might want to heed the warning in the first part of that verse: “…because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful.”

    Most of us know that marriage is hard. But just because some of us have never divorced, it does not give us the right to judge someone else’s non-deliberate misfortune.

    Rachel

  26. Denise says:

    Rachel,

    The issue is whether the divorce was biblical and therefore the remarriage was as well. If the divorce was not biblical, then remarriage is not an option.

    God’s commands are not to be tossed out so that we can be happy. Don’t confuse excusing sin with mercy.

    Don’t forget, Moses gave the divorce decree BECAUSE OF HARD HEARTS.

    Experience doesn’t dictate knowing truth; in fact I’d say that often experience often causes people to justify not following clear Scripture.

    Are professing Christians so self-centered that they are willing to break God’s command just to be happy? Is that really the heart of a Christian? Will they truly be happy in violating Scripture? And why do professing Christians, while justifying divorce, slam Christians for holding up HIS WORD? Man-centeredness is WHY so many have unbiblical divorces and remarriages. Personal happiness at any cost? What happened to taking up your cross daily and following and obeying Christ Jesus? Or do we do that only when its convenient?

    How often people forget the rest of 1Cor. 7: 1Co 7:26 ” I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is.” Paul said it IS good to be single, not bad. Remember, we are living in a post-Fall world. There are good things to not being married as Paul expresses in 1Cor. 7.

    An unbiblical has consequences on a multitude of levels. But God’s grace can help a Christian live a life that is pleasing to Him which doesn’t furthur violate His commands.

    Now, if the issue is in regard to a biblical divorce, then that’s another issue, but still, it has consequences.

  27. Mike L. says:

    Robert L.

    Thanks for writing and thanks for your question. I can tell you are sincere and not flippant and I am more than happy to discuss it. Divorce is a terrible thing and God’s plan from the beginning is that a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh (Gen. 2.24). And later on we know that Moses spoke to men, telling them to give a bill of divorce (Deut. 24.1-4) to a woman who has some uncleanness and with whom they found disfavor. There is, of course, much speculation as to what this “uncleanness” is but that’s a discussion for another time, I think. I’d just say that it doesn’t include adultery because that was punishable by death. I think Jesus cleared this up in Matt. 19.

    Why did Moses give them provision for divorce? Matt. 19 says, in the words of Jesus, that it was because of the hardness of their hearts. Jesus goes on to say that whoever divorces his wife EXCEPT for immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.

    I am certainly not going to go into the details of my former marriage because it’s not proper here; nor is it anyone’s business but my own. However, Robert, can we agree that Jesus is clear here that divorce is justifiable under conditions of adultery or incest? The Greek rendering here is “porneia” (where we get the word pornography from) and can include incest, adultery, and figuratively means idolatry. Since Jesus Himself gave this instruction, and said no more about it as to it being lawful or unlawful to remarry, do we assume that He means that a second marriage is unlawful? He never said that. On the contrary, if a second marriage was allowed under the Law of Moses, can we, in this age of grace, treat marriage so legalistically as to say that remarriage is always unlawful? If the union is broken by adultery/incest, does that not mean we are free from that marriage bond?

    I FIRMLY believe that we should be married once for life but we know that doesn’t always happen and certainly marriages end not because both parties want it. Would God then hold the unwilling partner in a divorce accountable as an adulterer if that person remarries? In the Law of Moses, a woman could remarry but was forbidden to return to her former husband but even under the Law, the woman was not subject to judgment or penalty because she remarried.

    As to why I thought the Lord led me to my new wife, the story is too long to tell but suffice it to say that we started out 4000 miles apart and in the following weeks after having spoke only because of a professional association, the Lord put so many events into place that neither of us could have had any hand in, in order to bring us together. I was praying for a Godly, Proverbs 31 kind of woman and she was praying for a Godly man. When we met, we weren’t looking for one another. As I said, it was a professional association and we had never met or talked before that. We started corresponding (again, we were 4000 miles apart and a relationship certainly was NOT on my mind due to that distance) and started to learn more about each other and soon discovered we were both Christians. We were basically long-distance equaintances and nothing more.

    I am a combat system engineer for SPY-1 radar systems on board Navy destroyers and cruisers, which means that I work near Navy bases or shipyards that build destoyers and cruisers. That means my choices are quite limited. Interestingly enough, as we spoke more, we thought it was sad that we didn’t live closer because we had so much in common. Not two weeks later I got a call from a manager from my company. He didn’t know me from Adam and certainly the fact that he found me is amazing in and of itself. He asked me if I would be interested in working for him in southern California at the Navy base. I was floored. I wasn’t even looking for work out here at that point. I prayed about it and spoke with my pastor about all that had transpired (much more happened that I’m leaving out for the sake of some brevity) and he said that if the Lord put all those things into place in HIS life, he would certainly know it was the hand of the Lord doing everything and he said that I needed to be obedient and walk through the doors that the Lord was opening. I say all that because this lady I had been talking with (now my new wife) is from southern California, right near my office here.

    Long story short, I moved to CA for the new position with the same company and a nice pay raise and was then able to properly court this lovely lady and now we are married after about 1-1/2 years of dating and we have a wonderful church (Calvary Chapel) and are now waiting to see what else the Lord has in store for us.

    So, after all of those events that were totally out of my and her control, it seemed quite apparent to me that it was the Lord’s will to make beauty from ashes and put this wonderful, Godly woman into my life.

    I’m not sure if that answers your question but it sure did my heart good to recount all that the Lord has done to get me to this place!! :-D

    God bless you, sir!! Thanks for asking.

    In His service,

    Mike

    Mike L.

    I truly commiserate with you and the difficulties you have gone thru. Now you are ready to begin life again with a new partner, one who loves the Lord as you do. To suggest that people divorce to get remarried ONLY is just not so.
    What you say ‘ feels ‘ right, however, we just had the divorce/remarriage argument a few weeks back and no one really spoke in defence of divorce/remarriage ( while the first spouse is still living ) and was able to support it from a Biblical perspective.
    I can find lots of evidence in support of the “covenant partner” belief that each and every 1st marriage is the only one God recognizes, but could you please show me from God’s word where 2nd marriages can indeed become ‘ lawful ‘ ones ?

    Honestly, I’m not trying to be flip here with you here – if as a Chrisitian you are satisfied that God has brought this person to you to share life with, how did you come to this conclusion ?

  28. seeker3k says:

    >> Mathew B 28/2/10 1:53am “I sure hope you never are asked to leave or have marital troubles.”

    That hope is in vain because Mrs Seeker3k separated from me about 6 years ago.

    Initially, I thought “great, now I can start again with someone else, so I will start looking around, how exciting. Romance is in the air”.

    After all, if everyone else can get “remarried” when their spouse dishonours their marriage, why shouldn’t I?
    This shows I was following false christ beliefs (“worldly” corruption) at the time.
    I now believe differently.

    If your spouse tells a lie, can you tell a lie?
    If your spouse steals something, can you steal something?
    If your spouse commits adultery, can you commit adultery?
    If your spouse “remarries” (commits adultery), can you “remarry” (commit adultery)?
    If your spouse sins against you, do you have to forgive them?
    If your spouse sins against you many times, how many times do you have to forgive them?

    Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him?- link>see Matthew 18:21-35

    If your spouse “divorces” you, then you can disagree with them and continue to live in that disagreement by asserting that God still holds you both responsible to honour your marriage vows.

    That is a righteous stance that continuously exposes their rebellion.

    Disagreement is good, when it is disagreement against falsehood.

    Bible counsel supersedes certificates issued by civil court judges.

    For example, Bible counsel makes a marriage certificate between 2 men (homosexual) invalid.

    That certificate would be worthless piece of paper, apart from being a statement of rebellion against Bible counsel.

    A divorce certificate is the same in the new covenant era.
    (Divorces were permitted in the old covenant under Mosaic law if you had a sufficiently hard heart.
    Adulterers were stoned to death, so the remaining spouse was always widowed.)

    >> Mathew B 28/2/10 1:53am “If you knew how I have struggled with this and how I have been condemned, not by God, but by so called church folk”

    Matthew B and Mike L, you appear a victim of false counsel.

    False counsel from yourself.
    False counsel from others.

    Church leadership should have given you the correct counsel and blocked your attempt to “remarry”, and refused to participate in it.

    You and Mike L’s experiences have been tough, I agree.

    It is tough to be an authentic Christian who does not compromise.

    There is a choice between following the true Jesus Christ, or a deviant imagination called MammonJesus (created through false teaching) who will comply with every wish to indulge.

    You have some tough decisions to put things right, if you do come to the conclusion you are living in an adultery covenant.

    Link>”The fear of the Lord” will assist you in your decision.

    In considering how difficult it could be for you to get out of what you have got in to, it scares me off the possibility of doing what you and Mike L have done (getting involved with another while my spouse is still alive).

    It does seem unjust to suffer ongoing disadvantage because of the wrongs of another (eg. an abusive or rebelling spouse).

    Jesus Christ suffered disadvantage because of the wrongs of others – he was crucified.

    2 Cor 1:3-5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.

    It isn’t impossible to live as single in the situation of estrangement by my spouse.

    You don’t have to live as a hermit, you can have a social life with fellowship and healthy recreation.

    Remember, adulterers will spend eternity in torment, in the lake of fire:

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Do you fear the Lord?

    There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1), but there will be condemnation for those in MammonJesus (a false Christ imagination empowered by the devil).

    2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you–unless, of course, you fail the test?

    The true Jesus Christ came to cause division between truth and falsehood:

    Luke 12:51-53 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

    This is a vigorous battle, a fight to the death.

    Some Christians actually do lose their lives for firmly representing the truth they believe.

    Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

    Link>Luke 14:28-33 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?……………
    ……….In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

    MammonJesus self indulgence is the opposite of forsaking all.

    Mathew B, Mike L, and all other “remarried” people out there, would you be prepared to “lose your life” including all ungodly (“worldly”) perks such as “remarriage” spouses, for the gospel?
    How about for your eternal security?

    If you disagree with the Bible interpretation I am asserting, then you can ignore me and carry on in your way.

    >> Mathew B 28/2/10 1:53am “But to say I am living in an adulterous covenant is preposterous.”
    I agree that it may seem preposterous in “worldly” logic, but the Christian way is in conflict with “worldly” principles in many things (if you interpret the Bible literally and make sure the interpretation of any part of it is considered in context of all of it).

    It is tough in my situation of hostility from my wife, to continue holding faithfulness to my marriage vows, and 3 sons are involved in it as well.

    However, with God’s help, it can be done.

    1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

    God’s kingdom is completely oriented around faithfulness.

    Faithfulness is proven by continuing through adversity, even when you aren’t getting any personal benefit from it.

    My wife’s lawyer wrote to me about 4 years ago that they were going to complete the divorce proceedings.

    I replied that a divorce certificate (order to dissolve marriage from a civil court judge) is actually an “adultery authorisation certificate”, because it is a statement of rebellion against what God has stipulated about marriage:

    Mark 10:6-9 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

    Malachi 2:16 “I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty.
    So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.

    I got no reply from the lawyer, and no divorce proceeding has occurred yet.

    There is no point in my wife getting a “divorce certificate” until she finds a suitable person to “remarry” (if she continues to believe in doing that), so we just live in separate places in our married status.

    The only reason that people divorce is to be able to “remarry” (formalised adultery), otherwise they would just separate (live in different places), but retain their married status.

    The Bible discourages forcing a spouse (who wants to leave) to stay.
    That covers abuse of yourself, meaning you can leave in the case of dangerous abuse.
    However nowhere does it then permit you to “divorce” them and “remarry” someone else.
    That is adultery. Marriage covenants are binding until death of either spouse.

    Be careful who you marry.

    However, good people can go bad.

    What about yourself?

    1 Cor 7:10-15 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
    To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
    But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

    Mathew B and Mike L, whoever encouraged your “remarriage” gave you false counsel, just like all the other false (unbiblical) counsel that has flooded into churches everywhere to promote false Christs.

  29. Mike L. says:

    Well Seeker, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You mention losing “eternal salvation.” How can it be ETERNAL, if it can be lost? You espouse a salvation of works, which is totally contrary to what my bible teaches and i take particular offense to your insinuation that I serve some idol you call “MammonJesus.” Where did you come up with that??? You seem to have condemned me and everyone else who has remarried to an eternity of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Lake of Fire because we have remarried into our chosen “formalized adultery.” As far as I’m concerned, this discussion is over because you seem to be living under the law and trying to force us to as well. I guess the “right” thing to do is to now commit yet another sin in order to make the first sin right??? What kind of logic is that? Two sins make a clean slate???

    The grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ (not this ridiculous MammonJesus you infer that I worship) is sufficient. Under your theology, all believers on the planet who have gone through divorce and remarried are now eternally condemned to Hell with no chance of a relationship with Christ until they divorce again so that they can be single and try to remain faithful to a marriage covenant that was broken.

    Be careful who you marry?????? Are you serious? Do you think I just picked some Russian, mail-order bride out of a Soldier of Fortune magazine?? I dated my ex-wife for 2-1/2 years. We were together for 26-1/2 years. If that isn’t careful, than I don’t know what is. We are sinful creatures and a lot can happen to someone over the course of that amount of time. Are you inferring that by “being careful” one can avoid marrying someone who just might change after 26 years and decide to abandon a marriage?? I was left to pick up the pieces.

    So, I guess all other sins can be forgiven but not remarrying and living in formalized adultery, as you call it. Sorry, but that doctrine of works doesn’t wash with me or my bible.

    In His service,

    Mike

  30. Craig Lee says:

    Seeker3K:

    Here are two scriptures specifying that Levitical priests cannot marry a divorced woman — or even one widowed:

    7 ” ‘They must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God.

    14 He must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or a woman defiled by prostitution, but only a virgin from his own people, [Lev 21:7, 14 NIV]

    Since this was not a general prohibition, then, it follows that non-Levites could marry divorced women. Also, there’s Deuteronomy 24:1-4:

    1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance. [NIV]

    Obviously, in these verses it’s clear divorced women could remarry [although not their original husband who found something "unclean" in/about her]. And, Jesus Himself gave an exception for divorce “for the cause of porneia” in Matthew 5:32:

    32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. [NIV]

    The man who divorces for a reason other than maritial unfaithfulness causes the wife to become an adulteress in the future as adultery cannot be committed unless there’s another partner. This man also has the sin of the her future husband’s “adultery” on his head as well.

    Are there any other verses which speak of being liable for someone else’s sin? Yes, there is:

    5″And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. [Matthew 18:56 NIV]

  31. Rachel says:

    This conversation is indeed painful… extremely painful. I hear pain throughout… and I am so, so sad for all. (Oh, yes, but happy for you, Mike L. for your new joy… and tell you new wife that for 3 days now I’ve already been praying for your marriage to be wonderful.)

    I do much sympathize and understand the desire to uphold God’s Word and His holiness –as well as absolute obedience to Him. I preach holiness and perfection consistently. Jesus meant what He said in Matt. 5:48, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

    I have cried with many an anguished person whose spouse, once kind and good, turned cruel, leaving one to cry alone many a night not knowing where the other was.

    Or, take another: The man up late night after night on the computer, sometimes viewing porn, only to leave his wife alone in bed.

    Or, take another: The man stays out late with his drinking buddies at the pub and no, isn’t committing adultery, but is leaving the wife home alone. Plus, he comes home drunk.

    Or: A woman, time and again (though several months apart, and promising to not do it again), allows men to text her and call her when her husband is at work.

    Or: A woman keeps spending money foolishly so that the family doesn’t have any money for bills, their electricity, etc. often getting turned off, etc., all the while, the husband working hard.

    Or: A wife subjects the two children to utter poverty because her husband takes drugs. (And these were people we met at church.)

    Or: The husband no longer makes love with his wife, does not even hold her, and never compliments her. Often he sleeps in another room. This goes on year after year. These are not isolated cases, nor are they reserved for the elderly. I’m thinking of three couples in their 20s –went 7-8 years without the “cuddling” –until the divorces finally occurred. And none were involved in affairs. Another couple in their 40s went over 3 years, and another in their 50s went 4 years.

    Or: A daughter (who is a notorious liar) says her dad molested her when she was younger, and surprisingly the law convicted him –based on VERY little evidence, and he’s been in prison now for 5 years, with supposedly 15 left. The wife, (my friend), won’t divorce him –even though he was violent to the family, had a “one-nighter” he repented of, and even though it has estranged the wife and daughter and son from each other because none of them know who is really lying. In fact, this is a case where most who know this family agree that she should have taken the kids away from him when they were young, and the children likely wouldn’t have turned out so horrible; but our church leaders were the ones who told her (every time she ran away with the kids), to go back and just submit more.

    Anyway, I could go on and on with these true, actual examples… unfortunately… Oh, yea, how about this one: The husband has something like extreme bipolar; so he’s wonderfully sweet at times, reads his Bible, etc., but other times he flies into rages where he kicks his wife, spits on her, slings her around, threatens to kill her, slugs her, chokes her…. but then later says he’s very sorry and buys her gifts… the cycle repeating for almost two decades…

    Folks, this is the reality of many a marriage. Jesus does not condone this or tell us to tolerate such. We all won’t tolerate false preachers like Todd Bentley in the pulpit. Then we are not to tolerate severe abuse, lies, neglect, lust, or anything else a spouse dishes out that is highly (and consistently) contrary to Christ-likeness.

    I do believe in throwing our lives away for the sake of the Gospel. But we are to be led by the Spirit and He calls for wisdom. We are not called to throw our lives away to swine. (See Matt. 7:6) Even if that “swine” is someone we love. For if we do, they may “then turn and tear you to pieces.” (same verse)

    “Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked.” (Prov. 25:26) We are to forgive. But we are not to repeatedly tolerate wickedness –especially in our own homes. (Ps. 101:7,4 & Prov. 21:19 & 22:10,24,25)

    When a person resorts to divorce so that a greater evil does not continue, then I believe the Lord vindicates that person from the otherwise sin of breaking a covenant. Even God broke His covenant with Israel. “…certificate of divorce… because of your transgressions your mother was sent away…” (Isa. 50:1) “I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce…” (Jer. 3:8) God then used that divorce so that He could “remarry” Himself to whosoever believes / obeys / follows Him –including Gentiles. (Rom. 11:11, 19-22)

    Sorry this got so long. But it is truly an issue we need to grapple with. For many live in acute anguish because of it.

    Rachel

  32. seeker3k says:

    >> Be careful who you marry?????? Are you serious?

    Settle down Mike L, it was a general comment to the world, in the context of my assertion that you can only marry one.
    Divorce and “remarriage” is not permitted.

    >> You seem to have condemned me and everyone else……….

    Stop being silly, I have only passed through a Bible interpretation.

    If I am correct, then it is God who potentially condemns you through that representation of his word.

    If I am wrong, then you can ignore me and go in peace.

    >> you seem to be living under the law

    The definition of grace is the opportunity to fulfil the law, meaning not to break any of it.

    Committing adultery is a violation of law, leading to damnation.

    The new covenant (New Testament) has many warnings of laws that if violated lead to eternal damnation, eg.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Taking care to avoid violating the above warning doesn’t bypass Jesus Christ’s completed work on the cross.
    It is just a double check (for self examination) that you are an authentic Christian (not following a false Christ, etc.).

    Christians who commit adultery contradict grace and mock the Holy Spirit who is the author of the Bible that gives the command “You shall not commit adultery”.

    The Devil is referred to as “the lawless one” (2 Thess 2:9) and he is behind MammonJesus type frauds where grace is perverted to become a flexiblilty to break laws.

    >> You mention losing “eternal salvation.” How can it be ETERNAL, if it can be lost?

    When you are eternally lost in the lake of fire because you ignored the warnings against losing your salvation.

    The Bible repeatedly asserts that a believer can lose their salvation.

    Being seduced to follow a false Christ through accepting false teaching is one way.

    People who choose to refute literal interpretation of Bible warnings about losing their salvation indirectly imply God is an incompetant who cannot produce and safeguard a Bible that is reasonably easy to comprehend on all the important topics.

    “Once saved, always saved” versus “You can lose your salvation” is a separate topic that probably belongs in a separate blog thread.

    Meantime, back to “Benny and the Jets” (Dove 1, Dove 2, etc.)

    If God hates divorce, then Christians shouldn’t participate in it, including exploiting the opportunity if one does occur: to then “remarry”.

    As a lover of MammonJesus, Benny Hinn may be rubbing his “gold-dusted” hands with glee at his immanent divorce.
    He can then “go to market” for a new spousy wousy, an upgrade to suit his flesh.
    There are plenty of women who will be attracted to the gold dust and paranormal power (Benny is a millionaire and “slain” artist, and will continue to rake in millions through his prosperity gospel).
    Benny can then showcase the new spouse as a supposed manifestation of God’s grace, after a lip service repentance about failure in the marriage to Suzanne (following the same procedure that Todd Bentley demonstrated).
    It could be tough living with Benny if he made you fall down (“slain”) whenever he pleased, and having false christ apparitions appear randomly throughout the day and night (is that you Kathryn K, or Aimee S ?).
    No doubt Suzanne Hinn is looking forward to flirt sessions after the divorce is completed, to romance a “lucky contender” now that she has a physical makeover.
    The Bible says “be born again” (John 3:3) and “be transformed by the renewing of your mind” (Rom 12:12) not “be transformed with a body makeover”, or “get a new face”.

    Prov 11:22 Like a gold ring in a pig’s snout is a beautiful woman who shows no discretion.

    Search for “Hinn” on link>this page to find out about S. Hinn “weight loss miracle” in the handmaiden cult.
    The handmaiden cult attracts divorce and “remarriage” like a magnet.
    Their adulteries bind them to the master they serve – the devil.
    The Hinns are world famous apostates and deceivers, eventually they may be slain by God.
    I think God only permits them to live on as a test of discernment in the church.
    The Hinns may also fulfil Bible prophecy about sorcery in Mystery Babylon<link, which is where link>”the emergent church” is headed with corruptions like divorce and “remarriage”.

  33. Mike L says:

    The bible is full of Scriptures about losing salvation, eh? Hmmmm. Well, I guess Jesus lied when He said that NO ONE can snatch them out of His hands. We are His sheep and we know His voice. At the judgment, Jesus doesn’t say, “I used to know you. Depart from me.” He said, “I NEVER knew you. Depart from me.” The obvious inference is that many who say, “Lord, Lord”, NEVER knew Him. If salvation and the grace of God is so weak as to allow a mere, sinful and wretched human being to negate all that Christ has done, then I feel sorry for those like you, Seeker, who surely have to walk through life tip-toeing and being paranoid that the next little thing you do wrong will result in your eternal damnation. That is not the security that my Bible teaches. John 3.16 says that whosoever believeth in Him shall have eternal life. It doesn’t say eternal life….UNLESS. Or etternal life…..UNTIL. It say ETERNAL LIFE, which is based upon what Christ has done once for all. When we give our lives to the Lord, we continue to sin but the difference is that it’s not habitual. We will sin until our dying breath and that is why we need the grace and mercy of Jesus. We are saved by grace through faith. Paul didn’t go on to say that we are saved by grace through faith until we sin again and have to get saved all over again. In your theology, one can NEVER know when and if they are saved because you believe that you are saved only if you don’t do this or don’t do that. That’s a salvation of works and it really cheapens the grace of God and the sacrifice of Christ. Surely, I agree that we are not to sin so that grace may abound but even that verse won’t fit into your works-based salvation.

    “If I am correct, then it is God who potentially condemns you through that representation of his word.”

    “If I am wrong, then you can ignore me and go in peace.”

    >> you seem to be living under the law

    “The definition of grace is the opportunity to fulfil the law, meaning not to break any of it.”

    Where do you find that definition of grace? Grace is getting something we don’t deserve (eternal life and the blessings of the Lord). Your definition, taken to it’s logical conclusion, is that it is by us observing the law and never breaking any of the 613 old testament laws that we obtain grace. That’s not what Romans 5 teaches.

    Do you have any idea how much of what Christ has done at the cross has to be “un-done” for us to lose salvation??? I don’t have the space or time at the moment to cover the doctrine of eternal security but suffice it to say that Jesus is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. If He granted us believing faith, it is HE who will see it through to the end. We are sanctified and preserved BY HIM.

    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Notice we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit, who is the earnest of our inheritance.

    Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    This passage in Romans is all about what CHRIST did. I don’t see any provision for us being able to take ourselves out of His calling and election and nullifying what He did BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. You sure do give the sinner an awful lot of power to thwart the plans and purposes of God by giving us the power of un-saving ourselves.

  34. Robert L. says:

    That was so good Mike L. I copied and saved it to my journal.

    Nice job.

  35. smilesback says:

    Seeker3k,
    I commend you for wanting to uphold God’s Word as the final authority, and for encouraging us in the “fear of the Lord.” I hear what you are saying. And yes, we need to get this doctrine right, for continuous adulterers do go to Hell. And I would agree with you –Scripture is full of the opposite of what “once-saved, always-saved” groups teach. I write on it myself –extensively– for I do believe it is one of the main culprits for the rampant sin in the church, including amongst the leaders.

    However, though God is full of wrath against sin and sinners, He also loved us so much that He came as a man to take that wrath, thus covering us with mercy. Mercy is undeserved forgiveness, compassion, and pardon. Therefore, when we are committing no sin that we know of, and are walking in the Light we’ve so far grown in and are continuing to grow in, God sees and extends the mercy that Jesus ransomed us for. He also extends it to us when we fall –if we confess our sins (1 John 1:9) and repent (Luke 13:3), and prove that repentance by our deeds. (Acts 26:20)

    I am saying that when one spouse has time and again received cruel treatment (adultery, abuse, or abandonment of ANY of the marriage vows), then if the cruelty (sin) does not stop, the mistreated spouse would be wise to leave. Then if there still is no repentance, divorce is permissible. To then remarry… that is an issue of being led by the Lord. For “we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” (Rom. 7:6)

    We often don’t really know what causes a divorce. For it’s really all the “little things” that just add, and add, and add.. up. Sometimes the husband is too domineering or neglectful or demeaning to his wife… she finally calls it quits (or has an affair), and the man say, “I didn’t do anything. She just left me.” –Or, “I was slaving away for our family, and she goes has an affair!” But the leaving or the affair was just a symptom, not the main problem (–unless, of course, she’s just one of those types who likes to cheat.) So was the “innocent” man actually innocent? No. But does God’s mercy extend to him too? Yes, if he was truly repentant.

    So, the point: No matter how much fault was ours, if we are truly repentant, God forgives. He wipes the slate clean. No, not for consequences. We still reap that. But cleared as in salvation. You don’t agree –still? Okay. How is it that you have chosen to deem remarriage as the one unpardonable sin? Because you and I and all of us know that we’ve all very likely had to be forgiven by God several times this month for crimes against Him (sin is lawlessness… sin is rebellion… remember) that are just as bad as the “adultery” of remarriage. (James 2:10,11)

    Someone quoted Mal. 2:16 –that God hates divorce. Yes, but it also says that He hates violence, and says that the “breaking of faith with one another” is “a detestable thing.” (v. 10) The breaking of faith is the breaking of any of the marriage vows –like, “I promise to love, honor, cherish, help you, protect you, and provide for you…” You know we’ve all broken faith in the “smaller” ways. But that James verses above, says that if someone “stumbles at just one point [he] is guilty of breaking all of it.” Guilty. Of ALL of it.

    So, if you condemn another to Hell for a certain sin, you also condemn yourself for your particular sin –even if you, like me, are aiming for perfection daily. Let’s shine these verses on ourselves before we judge another’s “sin” as supposedly not being cleared by repentance under the cross:

    Prov. 6:16-19 ~~”There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to Him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies, and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.”

    If that doesn’t convict you, then how about, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.”–? (Mark 16:15) That is a command to us all. Have you done it? How about this: “Be joyful always; Pray continually…”? (1 Thes. 5:16,17) –Or do you ever stumble with those two? Or how about, “Carry each other’s burdens…” (Gal. 6:2) and “as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people…” (v. 10) –”wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men.”–? (Eph. 6:7) –Ex-spouses included.

    Rachel

  36. highrpm says:

    seek3k,

    where would religion be w/o the religious teachers of the law always reminding us of laws we cannot keep?

    i’m glad you have the grace to live as a eunuch, but have you considered that you may be causing you ex to consider/live in adultery since you are still alive? practice what you preach, bro.

    i am 7 years into a “not-remarried” life, by choice, for essentially your argument. and i am 7 years stuck in the loss/grief cycle. it is worth than death. but it has made me wonder: why isn’t suicide included in the 10 commandments?

  37. shane says:

    “Do you have any idea how much of what Christ has done at the cross has to be “un-done” for us to lose salvation??? I don’t have the space or time at the moment to cover the doctrine of eternal security but suffice it to say that Jesus is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. If He granted us believing faith, it is HE who will see it through to the end. We are sanctified and preserved BY HIM. ”

    Amen to that!!!

    If a believer could lose their salvation, it would be impossible to keep it.

    Mat22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    Mat22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    Mat22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Mat22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Mat22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    There is no one that is able to keep these two commandments. So if salvation could be lost then we are all in trouble.

  38. shane says:

    1Cor6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    1Cor6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    1Cor6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Poeple always leave off verse 11.

  39. seeker3k says:

    Appreciation of “the fear of the Lord” is the key to preventing loss of salvation

    >> Shane 4/10/11 9:21am “People always leave off verse 11.”

    1 Cor 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    Some also leave out verses that warn against returning to sinful ways and being disqualified:

    2 Peter 2:20-22 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

    - you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God (1Cor 6:11)
    - knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ……….turn their backs ….. Of them the proverbs are true:……. “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” (2 Peter 2:22)

    Don’t argue against God’s repeating warnings against being disqualified (losing your salvation).

    Heed the warnings and follow his Bible counsel to prevent it happening.

    A good appreciation of the fear of the Lord is the safety to prevent acts that lead to falling away and losing your salvation.

    One of those counsels is to keep away from people such as Benny Hinn who channel familiar spirits and practice wizardry (eg. his “slain” acts):

    1 Cor 15:33-34 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God–I say this to your shame.

    Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

    Other counsel warns of laws that if broken will lead to disqualification:

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    People who get “remarried” while an original marriage covenant spouse is still alive do not fear the Lord.

    They probably only fear men, proven by them following the counsel of church pastors who approve of “remarriage” (adultery covenants).

    Many justify themselves with considering the sufferings they have been through and the belief they are entitled to compensation in this world.

    They do not fear the Lord in holding to their “remarriage”.

  40. shane says:

    2Peter 2:20-22 has nothing to do with true believers losing their salvation. You have to go back to the first of chapter 2 to see who Peter is talking about.

    2Pet2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    Peter is talking about false prophets not true believers. You have to look at the context. You will never find where a Christian is called a dog or a pig. Christians are sheep.

  41. smilesback says:

    Shane,
    Speaking of “sanctified”, look at Heb. 10:26 & 29. Verse 26 says that if we deliberately keep on sinning, then Christ’s sacrifice no longer covers us, and we are headed for Hell. And v. 29 says this is the punishment for those who have “treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him…”

    Heb. 6:4-6 condemns those who have fallen away after they have been enlightened, tasted, shared in, and participated in the Holy Spirit (the heavenly gift), God’s Word, and the power of God. Those verses could not be written any clearer. Heb. 3:14 says, “We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

    We should be able to especially understand what these verses are saying when we’ve seen many, who, after some years of marriage, do NOT hold firmly to their confidence of wanting to stay a lifetime with their spouse. Did not the spouse that wanted the divorce (or separation, or affair, etc.) confidently want (at first) the marriage to happen –oh, so in love…?! Yes. And this certainly can happen between us and Christ too! Not that He will ever leave us, but He gives us the freedom of choice to come, follow, and obey Him, –or… to leave Him. (John 6:67)

    And some do leave –because His teachings get too hard to take (accept), such as in John 6:66, “From this time many of His disciples turned back and no longer followed Him.” Still others, as He teaches in Luke 8:14, leave Him (–He who is the Word of God) because of worries, trials, and/or the allurements of the world. As He says in v. 13, “They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.”

    These types are condemned also in 2 Peter 2:20-22: “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred commandment that was passed on to them. [The commandment to truly and purely love God and others --for "love is the fulfillment of the law." --Rom. 13:10] Of them the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit,’ and ‘A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.’”

    You point out to us 1 Cor. 6:11 about having been “sanctified” –as well as having been “washed” –yet the verses above say a person can “undo” that by deliberate sinning.

    So the question is: Is remarriage deliberate sin? And if so, is divorce not a sin then also –since it is reneging on a covenant? And even if a person feels they did not initiate or cause the divorce, isn’t it still a sin to not be making every effort to reconcile? Or, on the flip side, isn’t it a sin to refuse to grant someone else a divorce who wants one? Even God gives us more freedom of choice than that!

    Look, I am genuinely asking these questions, and I think we should all be willing to help each other come to the truth, acknowledging that there are no flippant answers. We who teach (or even influence others’ lives –our own life, as well), must get this doctrine correct!

    To: highrpm: I feel terrible to hear your grief-stricken words of being caught still –after 7 years– in a sad cycle, admitting your experience feels worse than death. Yes, and many say that. Last year, one man whose wife was having an affair the whole two years before he found out, said, “Couldn’t she have just put a bullet in my head instead?” Oh, what pain one human can cause another! Betrayal is a horrible thing! –Even if it’s not adultery, for there are many types of betrayals…

    Also… We CAN keep the law. Because it is the law of the Spirit. (Rom. 8:2) And “if the Spirit of God lives in you” (v.9), then you “are controlled, not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit… the Spirit of Christ…” (same verse) Thus, we abide in Jesus and His words (John 15:7), for as He says, “apart from Me you can do nothing.” (v. 5) But… by Him living through us, we “will fulfill the law of Christ.” (Gal. 6:2)

    Rachel

  42. Craig Lee says:

    Seeker3K:

    C’mon. You can do better than that to support your stance that Christians can gain, then lose their salvation. How about:

    13All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. [Mark 13:13 / Matthew 24:13; also Matt 10:22]

    4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [Hebrews 6:4-6]

    26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [Hebrews 10:26-27]

    However:

    19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. [1st John 2:19]

    Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? [2 Corinthians 13:5]

    And then, there are these:

    13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. [Ephesians 1:13-14]

    21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. [2 Corinthians 1:21-22]

    3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. [1 Peter 1:3-5]

    4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Philippians 1:4-6]

  43. Craig Lee says:

    seeker3k:

    Since you’ve not directly answered one of my questions above regarding whether or not you believe that each and every 1st marriage is a “covenant marriage” and, hence, the only one God recognizes, I will draw the conclusion based on this…

    People who get “remarried” while an original marriage covenant spouse is still alive do not fear the Lord.

    …in conjunction with other comments you’ve made earlier. Given that, I must ask you how would God recognize and be in “covenant” with two unbelievers whether they are pagans, Muslims, Hindus, satanists, etc. in a marriage? Can 2 pagans be in covenant with God?

    Should a person in — as you would term — an “adultery covenant” divorce their current “spouse” in order to, hopefully, reconnect with their first marriage partner?

  44. Let’s Play Church!
    By Robert Winkler Burke
    Of inthatdayteachings.com
    Copyright 10/18/08
    Jeremiah 48:10

    Let’s play church,
    And say nothing’s wrong!
    Let’s play church,
    While I do something strong!

    I’ll play with NLP,
    Nuero-Linguistic Programming,
    To get rich with TV,
    Hoping myself I’m not damning.

    I’m propagandizing Christianity,
    With NLP subconscious tricks,
    I’m not sure God is always happy,
    With my psycho-charisma mix.

    For decades we broadcast ministers,
    Through trial and error found,
    Nothing beats hidden psychic processes,
    To make big bucks abound.

    So all is braggadocios well,
    With our psychic kicks,
    God’s gospel is heard world round,
    And we get quite rich.

    But wait! What happens,
    Oh, I wonder,
    If duplicitous politicians,
    Steal our thunder?

    We ravenous wolves in sheep’s clothing,
    Have ruined our sheep’s ears,
    Now dictators, tyrants, madmen could,
    Do what we’ve done for years.

    Our demonic plan to,
    Self aggrandize,
    Makes us rich at the,
    World’s poor demise.

    We can’t say Obama,
    Uses our techniques,
    ‘Cause then our church would have,
    Wailing sheep shrieks.

    No, we can’t do anything,
    Within our closed up ranks,
    But send our cash and gold,
    To discreet offshore banks.

    Privately we might say to each other,
    We were piggish and sloppy,
    We dumbed down our sheep to a point,
    They chose for leaders our copy.

    At this point we sure as hell,
    Can’t make mea culpas,
    We’ll keep flying in private jets,
    With sisters and brothers.

    The high-flying, self-absorbed elite of the world,
    You serve to sustain,
    We sell you powerfully veiled lies that you buy,
    Your cash, our domain.

    Billie Holiday sang, Them that’s got shall get,
    Now you know how,
    We have powerful psychic tools to control fools,
    To us you must bow.

    Obama does it with politics,
    We with religion,
    Hidden mind games and words,
    Puts us in position.

    Yes, Barack Obama has learned much wrong,
    From that Wright,
    His black pastor of linguistic thinking:
    Dim is bright.

    We have no fear of God,
    And neither should you,
    If you want our respect,
    Learn just who to screw.

    So now let’s play church,
    And say nothing’s wrong!
    Be mentored by me,
    While we do the sheep strong!

    And even Kenyans can learn in this,
    Through the agony of exposure,
    Just who is a truth and God bearer,
    And who would abuse them as poser.

    And don’t ask me what Jesus might opine,
    This is just what I say,
    Pshaw. Fiddlesticks. Rome burns,
    Who hears God anyway?

  45. Craig Lee says:

    Rachel:

    And even if a person feels they did not initiate or cause the divorce, isn’t it still a sin to not be making every effort to reconcile? Or, on the flip side, isn’t it a sin to refuse to grant someone else a divorce who wants one? Even God gives us more freedom of choice than that!

    Perhaps you don’t know this; but, in most states in the US the respondant (the one not initiating the divorce; the one being sued) has no choice in a divorce. If the petitioner (the one who initiates the divorce) wants a divorce, then he/she WILL get one! I’ve been divorced twice and each time I refused to go to court to get it finalized as my presence was not required for my former wives to complete it. (In fact, I would have had to pay the attorney even more money for his time! Since I didn’t show, — they knew this ahead of time as I made it plain — they didn’t either.) These are what are usually termed “no fault” divorces.

  46. shane says:

    Mat22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    Mat22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Mat22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Mat22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    If you do not keep these two commandments you have sinned. If you break these two you have broken them all. It is imposible for a human being to keep the commandments everyday of their life. From birth until death. So, to all of you that believe a Christian can lose their salvation, have you kept the two commandments above? If you don’t then you are a lying thieving adultering murdering blaspheming idolater.

    The very faith that a person has to believe comes from God(Eph2:8). God will finish what He starts(Phi1:6;Rom8:30)

    If you are teaching justification by keeping the Law then you are teaching another Gospel. Read Galatians.

    As far as Hebrews10. The writer finishes out the chapter saying that true believers will not draw back but are those that will continue to believe.

    So to all that believe in sinless perfection and have Charles Finney theology, I truly feel sorry for you. I have been where you are and believed what you believe. Praise God that the righteousness of Jesus has been imputed to us. A fact that Finney denied. It truly breaks my heart to see people thinking that they can obtain sinless perfection. Not even the Apostle Paul thought he could obtain that.

    Adam and Eve were perfect when they were created. They could’nt even keep God’s commandments. How do you expect to?

  47. smilesback says:

    Craig Lee,
    Goodness, I certainly know all about the no-fault divorce laws of the land. What I meant, was, as in “the law of love” / “the law of the Spirit” / “the law of Christ”. To be more blunt, I feel that Seeker may be breaking that law (thus sinning) in that he MAY be shaming his estranged wife, laying a guilt trip on her, or threatening her with scare tactics from God’s Word.

    Most of us know a whole lot about spiritual abuse. It is very real, strong, and controlling. We are never to control another. Control is to be left to God. We are to love and bless –even our enemies. (Matt.5:44) We are to always seek the other’s highest good above our own (1 Cor. 10:24), even if the division continues unintentionally. For “who can straighten what He has made crooked.” (Ecc. 7:13) And God does intervene and deliver those who are oppressed or maligned by others. (Ps. 12:5-7)

    Rachel

  48. smilesback says:

    Shane,
    Ease up. Jesus clearly does command perfection in Matt. 5:48 –”Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” And as 1 Peter 1:15 says, “But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do.” In ALL we do. –Be perfect and holy JUST AS God is. Yes, it is a high calling, a high bar. It is impossible to jump over the bar ourselves.

    However, we jump over by being born anew of the Holy Spirit. Then by feeding off of Jesus and His Words, we gain the strength. That’s how we can daily deny self (Luke 9:23) and crucify self (Rom. 6:6,12,13) to the world and it to us –through the cross. (Gal. 6:14)

    Abiding (John 15:1-8) is about walking in the Spirit (Gal. 5:16), being “controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.” (Rom. 8:9) If you are having a problem with that, then you likely “do not belong to Christ.” (same verse) “Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God.” (1 John 3:10) For “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s nature abides in him; he cannot go on sinning because he has been born of God.” (v. 9) This refers to deliberate sin. Sinning against the leading of the Spirit, as well as against the Word of God.

    The Lord does not expect us to become mature in a day, or to learn everything in a day. (John 16:12) But we are to continuously meditate on Scripture so as to “be careful to do everything written in it.” (Josh. 1:8) Thereby we do “train ourselves to be godly.” (1 Tim. 4:7)

    2 Tim. 2:12 says, “If we disown Him, He will also disown us.” (Some versions, the KJV included, use the word “deny” here instead of “disown”.) Titus 1:16 says, “They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny Him.” Thus, our actions can cause Him to disown us –to divorce us. Just as He “gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce” (Jer. 3:8) –even though in Ezek. 16:8 God says, “I gave you My solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign LORD, and you became Mine.” Yet in verse 32 He says, “You adulterous wife!” speaking of her “detestable practices” (v. 22), and then says in verse 59, “I will deal with you as you deserve, because you have despised My oath by breaking the covenant.”

    And we know that He then soon made a completely new covenant –with a new people –a people who truly love Him and remain faithful to Him –holy, pure, and obedient.

    This issue of divorce and remarriage has scarred the church maybe more than anything else. For besides ruining families and churches and societies, it hits us at the core of our spirits –our emotions, our ideals, our hopes… threatening to devastate one’s life and psyche.

    May the Lord heal the penitent one, and through His great forgiveness and mercy, raise him or her up –with a totally clean slate –no longer bound to whatever happened in the past. For “it is for freedom that Christ has set us free.” (Gal. 5:1) –”Set free from sin” (Rom. 6:18), but also set free to be forgiven. (1 John 1:9)

    Rachel

  49. Craig Lee says:

    Rachel,

    Thanks for clearing that up. I was a bit confused — a not so unusual state for me I’m afraid. ;-)

  50. shane says:

    “Ease up”

    I can’t “ease up” when someone starts taking away from salvation. I despise, I am not trying to come across as being angry, the belief of sinless perfection. I despise the belief that a true believer can lose or forfeit their salvation. I also despise easy believism.

    If a Christian could lose their salvation then we would all be in trouble. We would lose it several times a day if not more. Man plays no part in salvation. Man is dead, God gives man life, God gives man the faith to believe, God keeps man.

    I am ending my debate on the security of the believer on this post. This is about Benny Hinn and not eternal security. If anyone wants to talk about E.S., perseverance of the saints, once saved always saved, I will do so on my blog, Lord willing.

  51. seeker3k says:

    “Remarriage” is a consummation of rebellion against God.

    The only reason that people divorce is to be able to “remarry” (formalised adultery), otherwise they would just separate (live in different places), but retain their married status.

    A divorce certificate (adultery authorisation certificate) arranged by one spouse should be ignored by the other as a worthless statement of rebellion against what God has repeatedly asserted about marriage vows (stay faithful to them until death).

    When either spouse subsequently “remarry” as a consequence of having a divorce certificate, they are affirming agreement with a statement of rebellion.

    “Remarriage” is a consummation of rebellion against God.

    If your spouse divorces you, don’t agree with their rebellion by “remarrying”.

    (I expect Benny Hinn will “remarry” after Suzanne’s petition for divorce completes, to affirm his agreement with rebellion against God.)

    Disagreement with falsehood is an important activity of authentic Christian living.

    >> Smilesback 5/3/10 11:29 pm “Seeker may be breaking that law (thus sinning) in that he MAY be shaming his estranged wife, laying a guilt trip on her, or threatening her with scare tactics from God’s Word.”

    No, I am simply representing a firm disagreement with the unbiblical beliefs of my wife.

    I am also representing a firm disagreement with everyone else who believes “remarriage” is an option.

    So help me God.
    (that my interpretation of the Bible is correct).

    PS, I was around at my wife’s home today doing a few minor jobs of tree pruning.
    Soon I will be shifting to another country to start a new job.
    The (estranged) state of the relationship means there are no goodbye kisses, but that is accepted as the way, after adjusting to almost 7 years apart. I enjoy abundant living in the appreciation of simple things and scripture is full of counsel for enduring on, so isn’t God wonderful for providing that.
    I don’t need sympathy from any person, because link>it’s already written in the Bible.

    More encouragement on this link.

    Has my wife lost her salvation?
    Has she “crossed a line” by persistently hardening her heart against me and God?
    I hope not.

    Prov 4:23 Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.

    “Following a false christ” is a logical way to explain people who continue to go to church and “praise Jesus” but contradict the Bible in obvious ways, such as taking their wedding rings off and asserting their marriage is over and they can go to another.

    At least I will speak out against false teaching that is leading to these kind of outcomes.

    The remarriage industry within the church is a major influence towards my wife going astray, because “remarried” people in churches are representing a definition of God’s grace as the supposed opportunity to start again with someone else.

    Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

    Link>Mr & Mrs Seeker3k: ”In sickness or health, rich or poor, till death do us part”

    The marriage separation has been very harmful for >these children, in provoking them to lose confidence in God (what is the point of God if Christian parents separate?).

  52. Mike L says:

    This whole idea of remarriage seeming to be the unpardonable sin, as seeker seems to infer, is preposterous. A this whole idea of sinless perfection is totally in violation of Scripture, which makes it crystal clear that if we say we have no sin, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US. But, if we confes our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If by obeying the law we are able to achieve sinless perfection, Christ would not have had to come and die such a horrendous death for us. We could make it on our own merits. Well, even our righteousness is as filthy rags. To think otherwise is to deceive yourself. We will not see perfection until we shed this body of death. Even Paul struggled with sin constantly, as he pointed out in Romans. And why did he sin and struggle with sin? BECAUSE HE WAS A SINNER UNTIL HIS DYING DAY. He needed the grace and mercy of Christ just as we do.

    Basically, the bottom line is that seeker thinks all of us who have suffered divorce and have since remarried are eternally condemned because of his cheap view of grace and it’s also quite obvious that he isn’t going to change his judgment, regardless of how unscriptural it is and so continuing this discussion is pointless. I am going to continue to worship my loving Savior, continue to live my life to the utmost of my abilities for Him, continue to love and cherish my new wife and do my utmost to love her as Christ loved the church, continue to study my bible daily, continue to submit my life to the working of the Holy Spirit, continue to run the race set before me, continue to do all I can to expose error in the church, continue to serve at my church, and continue to rest in the security of my salvation that the Scriptures are so abundantly clear about, and look forward to an eternity with my Savior. And I’m sure I speak for many who have also suffered divorce and have since found joy and happiness with a new Godly mate who also are doing the same things I just mentioned as they follow the Lord.

    I refuse to acknowledge the cheap grace that seeker presents and think it is sad that anyone would. The price MY savior paid for my salvation was way too high to be cheapened by a mere act of my sinless humanity and declare it null and void. I would be a very sad and defeated Christian if I had to walk around in the kind of fear that would be required in a cheap view of grace that says that any time I sin I immediately declare the work of the cross null and void. What kind of powerless God would not be able to keep those whom He has chosen before the foundation of the world? That is not the God of the Bible that I read. He is MIGHTY TO SAVE but seeker’s theology takes away God’s power to save and puts it in the hands of the sinner. Sorry, but I don’t want anything to do with that cheap grace and I sincerely hope that new Christians aren’t taught that lie because as they grow in the Lord, they will have many struggles with sin along the way and many would come to the conclusion that its easier to just keep on sinning than to try and live for God who will condemn them to Hell at the drop of a hat because they sinned….again.

    I’m done.

    Mike

  53. Mike L says:

    I meant “SINFUL” humanity in my last post in the last paragraph. I was unable to edit it properly before I hit send. Sorry for the misrepresentation of my sinful state. I am certainly NOT sinless, nor am I perfect, nor will I be until I am with my Savior.

    In His service,

    Mike

  54. smilesback says:

    Craig, Thank you! You mean you don’t want to argue? You just want to say you misunderstood?! What a breath of fresh air! A friendly, not angry person! Amazing! But, admittedly, my statement was confusing because I used the word “grant”.

    Seeker, If someone wants to leave –yes, as in, leave the marriage– we are not to play Judge, saying, “You are in rebellion to God, so I will try my best to withhold from you any peace of mind about your decision –or about your right standing with God –or about your assurance of salvation.” That is not your job. Your job is to tenderly love your wife, prune her trees, and grant her freedom to make her own choices.

    Yes, children are harmed by separation and divorce. But they are harmed even more so by the anger, resentment, belittling, and accusations that they see continue from one or both parents. Children losing their confidence in God over this? No, children lose their confidence in God by watching a person (especially their own father) who they know is to love his wife as Christ loves the church, portray actions or words that are the opposite.

    Maybe this is not the case with you, but these polarizing statements do not have a good tone: “Has my wife lost her salvation? Has she “crossed a line” by persistently hardening her heart against me and God? I hope not.” Wow! Hopefully, you haven’t stated that within earshot of your children! Or, “No, I am simply representing a firm disagreement with the unbiblical beliefs of my wife.” (Using the word “unbiblical” –too pious, judgmental, and arrogant sounding.) So, –fine. –Firmly disagree. –But don’t control. And repeated use of the word “rebellion” isn’t gonna get you far either.

    God is the one who deals with our rebellion, not a spouse. Husbands are to protect, provide for, and cherish their wives, not discipline them –which is the idea that’s coming across to me from your statements. Seven years? It’s over, Seeker. And to pretend it’s not, is just plain folly, denial, and keeping another bound. If you want to be bound (celibate and alone), fine, but to try your best to bind her (against her will) to your beliefs and ideals, is sin –continuous, deliberate sin. Furthermore, your god appears to be this: A covenant. –Which in that, you are breaking the first of the Ten Commandments, which is a worse sin than the type of “rebellion” sin supposedly your wife is in.

    The trouble with us humans, is we get an idea in our heads, an ideal, a value, a worldview, and we can’t shake loose of it. Kinda like Shane’s ideal… his belief in OSAS –like many who say, “It just has to be this way! –because that’s my belief!” In other words, “I believe it’s like this, therefore it is.” But beliefs are not what matters. What matters is the truth –and then believing that.

    Oh, yea –so my opinion (yes, based on the Bible, Seeker), about Hinn and wife? Well, c’mon… who could possibly stay married to him? He’s a false prophet and a nut, and he’s never gonna change (short of a miracle.) Maybe she’s a nut too –I don’t know. But most any normal woman could not remain. For in remaining, she is condoning what he does. And if not condoning it, how could she then remained joined –be “one”– with such a farce? Anyone righteous could not do so easily.

    Remember, Matt. 1:19 tells us, “Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.” Notice, Seeker, that this says “her husband”. Notice that it says he was “a righteous man”. Notice that he “had in mind to divorce her…” And why? Because he thought she was unrighteous, and he did not wish to remain joined to that. Would he have remarried? Undoubtably, yes. True, he didn’t live with her yet. But had the solemn oath already been given –the covenant made? Yes. But… BECAUSE he was righteous, he was about to BREAK it.

    Rachel

  55. Robert L. says:

    Hi Rachel

    Some good points.

    Please note however that Joseph was still betrothed to Mary at this point. The Bible says in another verse somewhere that Mary was Joseph’s epoused wife. In a legal sense only, Joseph & Mary were understood to be husband & wife. Its like an engagement period we enjoy in our culture today only much more legally binding upon Jews, in Jewish culture. The betrothel period could last for up to a year, before the official wedding ceremony and consummation took place. Joseph could legally serve Mary a Letter of Divorcement because of what he percieved to have taken place, namely, fornication or ‘pornea’ . Fornication can only take place between single people, otherwise Jesus would have used the word adultery, which can only occur between those who are married. When Jesus spoke these words in Matthew, he was speaking to Jews, who completely understood what He was talking about.

  56. Craig Lee says:

    Robert L.,

    I’ve seen the “betrothal view” regarding Matthew 5:32 and 19:9; but, I find it does not have merit. Firstly, the term “porneia” means more than just fornication as it includes adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, etc.:

    http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=4202

    To assume the Matthew verses apply stictly to sex prior to the consummation of a marriage and/or during the betrothal period is to extrapolate from the text. So, this “betrothal view” cannot be proven when the text is taken at face value. To be more clear, Jesus certainly could have added the corollary “during the betrothal period” or something to that effect.

    Secondly, in looking at Deuteronomy 22:13-27 we see that sex during the betrothal period (virgin pledged to be married) was punishable by death. This was the same as the punishment for adultery. The text here refers to the “virgin pledged to be married” as “another man’s wife.” I’m not saying unequivocally that sex during the betrothal is in fact adultery; but, that is inferred by the text. However, in Leviticus 20 which lists various sexual sins and the penalties for these sins, the following are punishable by death: adultery (vv 10, 11, 12); incest (v 11); homosexuality (v 13); bestiality (vv 15, 16). Each of these fall under the definition of porneia.

    Further, if we look at Deuteronomy 22:28-29 this is clearly speaking about the rape of a virgin — one who was not married, nor betrothed to be married. In this case the man must marry the woman after paying the father; and, he must never divorce her. Promiscuity by a woman prior to marriage, however, was punishable by death as Deut 22:20-21 indicates.

    So, it seems logical to me to assume Jesus meant that a man could divorce a woman if she had committed porneia — any of the definitions of this word, not limiting it to merely fornication.

    Taking the “betrothal view” to its logical conclusion then the only valid reason to “divorce” was for fornication (during or before the betrothal) only — excluding even adultery since this could only occur after the marriage ceremony was performed. Once again, this is an extrapolation of the text — taking it beyond face value.

  57. Craig Lee says:

    In the last paragraph above this should read “(sex during or before the betrothal)” in the parentheses.

  58. smilesback says:

    Robert,
    Yes, I know about that. My point concerns this legal vow, covenant, promise, commitment. Are you saying, then, that it is instead the consummation (on the wedding night) that is the binding factor –which causes some to think one absolutely is bound for life? And if you think so… I ask, how could that be it –since many people (“Christians” too) nowadays have sex while single and dating, yet don’t feel that binds them like the covenant vow of marriage does?

    Thanks for your input.

    Rachel

  59. Denise says:

    Shane’s right. Eternal security is not an optional view, its a Biblical view and one clearly and repeatedly and contextually taught throughout th entire Bible. Eternal Security has to do with WHY a person is saved–to what end, what purpose, and by whom?

    Deny eternal security and you deny the doctrine of Justification as well as making Jesus a liar when HE said HE will not lose one of His own.

    Those who wish to disagree with Jesus Christ–let’s take it up at Shane’s blog, as he offered.

  60. seeker3k says:

    Refuting false counsel

    Benny Hinn’s ministry and immanent divorce may be teaching the church something important.
    The spirit behind everything Benny Hinn and the spirit behind divorce and “remarriage” is coming from the same source.

    In reply of smilesback/Rachel 6/3/10 11:14

    Rachel you are being a false witness of the truth regarding what God has stated about marriage.
    In doing that you will lead people astray and harm the church, so I must give reply.

    I believe God hates what you are encouraging.

    >> “If someone wants to leave –yes, as in, leave the marriage– we are not to play Judge, saying, “You are in rebellion to God”

    That is false counsel as the Bible compels us to judge righteously, based on correct use of scripture.

    Right judgement can provoke guilt/shame leading to repentance.
    Of course wrong judgement can provoke false guilt/shame.
    My wife is an adult who can read the Bible for herself, and can verify the Biblical validity of any stance I represent to her.
    Actually, any Christian in the world can represent the correct Biblical stance to her without knowing her personally, as they would only be a messenger of God’s truth.

    Rachel you have made a wrong judgement of me, so I have no guilt or shame about the points you have made. I will just refute them.

    All Christians are compelled to make righteous judgements of others according to their conscience and Biblical understanding.

    Link>here is a good comment about making righteous judgments.

    In making righteous judgements to my wife and children I am giving them a witness of the truth.
    Maybe it is an inconvenient truth, but they will decide what they believe about those judgements, according to their conscience and degree of love of the truth.

    >> “Seven years? It’s over, Seeker. And to pretend it’s not, is just plain folly, denial, and keeping another bound”

    What a false teacher you are Rachel.
    My wife and I stated marriage vows to each other on 18 October 1986 in front of many witnesses, and the Bible holds us accountable to honor those until death.

    Rachel you are playing the devil’s advocate to decide our marriage is over.

    I know the stance I am representing is highly inconvenient for all people who have divorced and “remarried” throughout the New Covenant (New Testament) era.
    If they had more >fear of the Lord they wouldn’t have pursued their foolish course.
    I am not going to pursue that foolish course, and I am strongly discouraging my wife and children from agreeing with any divorce/”remarriage”.
    This is what a loving husband and father should do.

    This issue should divide the church because God has warned that getting it wrong leads to disqualification (wilful adultery leads to condemnation for eternity):

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    If “remarriage” is just a way of participating in wilful adultery, then it will lead to condemnation for eternity.

    Church people who disagree with this may just be following a false christ they have permitted through false teaching.

    >> “to try your best to bind her (against her will) to your beliefs”

    That misrepresents my stance.

    My wife is living completely within her free will, that is why she has separated from me.
    Her beliefs have altered to follow that course.
    For me to maintain consistent disagreement is to promote correct beliefs to return to.
    It is not bullying, it is just maintaining a secure opportunity to return from false beliefs.

    >> “about Hinn and wife? …..who could possibly stay married to him?….For in remaining, she is condoning what he does.”

    Suzanne Hinn remaining in marriage to Benny is a separate topic from what Benny Hinn teaches and practices.

    All marriages have some items of disagreement about beliefs and practices, and these should never be used to justify going to another: “remarriage”.

    The Bible permits separation of spouses if one insists on pursuing free will to leave, and the other avoids forcing them to stay.
    However the Bible does not permit “remarriage” in the New Covenant era.

    “Remarriage” is what both Benny and Suzanne Hinn are seeking, as otherwise they would just live separated and not pursue a divorce certificate (adultery authorisation certificate – a certificate of rebellion against what God has stated he wants people to follow):

    Matthew 19:4-6 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

    See >this sample of a real adultery authorisation certificate.

    Is my interpretation and practice a hard teaching?

    Many disciples stopped following Jesus Christ because his teachings were “too hard”.

    John 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

    My stance is important to live, because in the Bible God has counselled for no compromise and endurance through difficulty:

    Rev 3:15-16 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

    1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

    2 Cor 1:8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life.

    2 Tim 2:3 Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

    2 Tim 2:10-12 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
    Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;

    2 Tim 4:5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

    Hebrews 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

    “Remarriage” is a massive compromise to avoid endurance through loss.

    Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

    Churches wouldn’t be so corrupted if more Christians stopped compromising through condoning or participating in divorce and “remarriage”.

    Even if my endurance never results in reconciling to my wife, at least my witness is pointing observers in the correct direction:

    Stay faithful to your marriage vows and do not “remarry” unless you are widowed.

    So help me God.

    He will, and is.

    Benny Hinn’s ministry and immanent divorce may be teaching the church something important.
    The spirit behind everything Benny Hinn and the spirit behind divorce and “remarriage” is coming from the same source:

    Rev 18:2-4 …….Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird. For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
    Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

    Coming out of “Babylon” could be a true revival.

  61. highrpm says:

    In defense of seeker3k:

    This is not a biblical exposition, but rather a gut response…

    Adultery is corruption of a holy—“you are the only one”—relationship. Israel corrupted God’s covenant with them by worshipping other gods; and they did not divorce God, but simply wanted to include other gods. Similarly, cannot spouses adulterate their marriage relationship by carrying on a non-sexual relationship with another significant other? And remarrying after divorce adulterates the memories of the past: since no one is perfect, one will always be tempted to compare the new mate with the old; and the new family with the old. this carries through to the offspring in divided loyalty and wishing for “the way it was”.

    Something is fundamentally different about holy relationships that only deaths complete. The “hardness of the heart” excuse aside, using the “trial-and-error” method to find the holy one—“I promise to stop shopping now that I found you”—feels at its basic construct contradictory and wrong: since many cannot possibly know the other well enough to ensure all differences reconcilable, a covenant relationship–“for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, till death do us part”–seems the only way to declare a holy relationship.

    Forget the “easy grace” argument; we do suffer consequences for our mistakes. remarriage makes a mockery of [holy] marriage and it makes a farce of family. If there is a “sin unto death”, this one may qualify.

  62. smilesback says:

    We know very well that Jesus was amongst a very male-dominated, women-much-inferior society, and that these men adhered to the Talmud (Mishnah, plus their commentary on it, the Gemara), and that in those teachings men were allowed to divorce their wives –even without giving her a kethubah (deed of marriage settlement)– for such things as scars, loud voice, excessive perspiration, moles, and offensive breath. Thus, when Jesus was addressing this issue, we can go to Matt. 19:3 and see the Pharisee’s initial question that day: “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?”

    Jesus’ point, then, in saying –No, only for reason of unchastity, was to counter their horrible and unfair divorce laws. The reason we can know that Jesus was not ruling out other exceptions, is because we can go to other passages in God’s Word and compare Scripture with Scripture. –Such as 1 Cor. 7:15 –”But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances…” Does Paul use the authority of Jesus’ past statements on the matter? No. He gives this reason: “God has called us to live in peace.” Does he then say that remarriage is out of the question? No.

    Some will get all hung up on that word “unbeliever”. Yet anyone who is continuously and deliberately sinning can be considered to be manifesting unbelief / distrust / disobedience to God, and though we don’t know one’s heart, we can judge by their fruit. This is why, when Benny Hinn keeps getting further entrenched in his error, blasphemy, and false doctrine, a wife would have to remember 1 Cor. 15:33, “Do not be misled: ‘Bad company corrupts good character.’” And then apply 2 Cor. 6:17, “Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.”

    A godly wife, if she lived with a false teacher like Hinn, or a druggie, or a violent man, or a liar, etc., would also have to “rightly divide the Word” (2 Tim. 2:15), and apply other verses such as, “Allow no evil to dwell in your tent.” (Job 1114) Or, “Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered, or you may learn his ways and get yourself ensnared.” (Prov. 22:24,25) (This is a wise warning –God’s Word– to all who remain with an abuser.) God’s Word also says it is BETTER to separate from such, even from a quarrelsome spouse (Prov. 25:24) or a mocker (Prov. 22:10 & Ps. 1:1), and that to love or be in alliance with the wicked incurs God’s wrath upon ourselves. (2 Chron. 19:2)

    Once a couple has separated, yes, there should be utmost effort for reconciliation –as they live apart and try to mend things, knowing that likely it was sin on both their parts that led to the present mess. However, both need to repent –not just one. Otherwise, the contract of marriage (marriage is a vow to love, honor, respect, live together, and yes, unique only to marriage –”make love” with) has been broken. And once broken, it is null and void. It is not voided until one partner breaks it; but once one has, it is broken. What Seeker doesn’t seem to understand, is that his has been broken. One, (or both) has LEFT the marriage.

    Ex. 21:10,11 says, “If he marries another woman…” Let me stop: We have civil laws that now prohibit polygamy, but this can apply when a spouse has been deliberately LOOKING lustfully after another which Jesus says is adultery (Matt. 5:28) (–though I don’t hear any of you telling such a person to gouge out their eye…) Besides this, we know that under O.T. law, the adulterer would be stoned, thus dead, thus leaving the “innocent” one to remarry. We don’t have this death penalty anymore, thus we have complications.

    Ex. 21:10,11 continued: “If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.” Stop again. This would be provision and security –physical, but also emotional and spiritual. “Marital rights” definitely includes making love to one’s spouse, as we read in 1 Cor. 7:3-5, therein stated “marital duty.” If someone has not fulfilled this for seven years, they are completely out of obedience to God’s Word and the contract / promise has, long ago, been broken.

    Verse 11 of Ex. 21: “If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.”

    So, we see that we cannot take just one command and run with it. We once had a wretched Civil War because of those who used the Bible, such as Col. 3:22, “Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything…” to justify keeping others bound. We must obey the WHOLE of God’s counsel. Really we should not even be discussing the law –for those who walk in the counsel of the Holy Spirit know that “all who rely on observing the law are under a curse.” (Gal. 3:10)

    As Jesus said, “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” (Matt. 7:5) And in declaring innocent those who broke the Sabbath laws because of the greater need of hunger (Matt. 12:5), Jesus said, “If you had know what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.” (v. 7)

    Rachel

  63. Bren Antos says:

    This story is still unraveling… I feel so sad for anyone that goes through this. I have been on this road myself.

Comments are closed.