John Crowder Mocks Scripture

John Crowder mocking Scripture?  That’s nothing new, right?

Crowder has obviously heard the criticism of his method of “ministering,” and this video is his response.  He and his wife, Lily, made this video to address those concerns.   Men like this, puffed up by their own arrogance, are unteachable and place themselves beyond correction.  Should one offer them Scriptural proof that condemns their doctrine or behavior, this is the kind of response they get.

What do you think?  Upon listening to this, I was utterly amazed at Crowder’s lack of understanding of Scripture.  I mean, I shouldn’t have been.  It’s just that, I knew he was Biblically illiterate, but he’s even more Biblically illiterate than I realized…and that’s saying something!

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60 Responses to John Crowder Mocks Scripture

  1. Adrian Rodriquez says:

    Hmmm … mocking scripture, or mocking you?

    Not sure why some of you self-appointed heresy hunters are so obsessed with this guy. You obviously are challenged by him. Crowder’s last book (his second one) has 20 pages of footnotes alone. I bet he could run Biblical literacy circles around you any day of the week. You just don’t understand him, so you criticize what you don’t understand (Jude 9).

    If Crowder is truly as a mocker, as you say, then you are in sin to rebuke him. Proverbs 9:8 says “do not rebuke a mocker” but it does say “rebuke a wise man.”

    So either you are in sin, or you think Crowder to be a wise man.

    • Chrystal says:

      I would be more impressed if Crowder’s last book had 20 words from Scripture he fully understood and knew how to rightly divide.

      It dishonors God to follow heretics, especially in light of the fact that we have His Word through which we will know the truth. There’s no excuse for it.

      While you’re at it, please give me Scripture for Crowder’s “tokin’ the ghost,” and “Jehovauanna.”

      While Crowder and others are “whacked out,” we will do what God’s Word says and be sober minded and pray. The days are dark.

  2. Doug says:

    Well, Chrystal, you’ve done it again! I’ve heard of a musician named Crowder, but whether he’s related to this guy I don’t know.
    Biblically illiterate doesn’t seem to quite cover it. What part of Grace do they think they are standing on? Do they think God approves of their mockery?
    Rhetorical. Of course they do.
    I watched the entire fandango. These people are sad.
    Not to belabor the obvious, but the most God honoring churches have generations in worship-the elders teaching the young. A strong church is doctrinally sound, which is why these alleged ministries can’t stand strong churches.
    If they live long enough, these Crowders may come to realize how foolishly, dangerously wrong they were in their youth. May God break through their arrogance and error.

  3. Doug says:

    I checked out Crowder on the net, listened to him being interviewed on iTunes…he’s a fake.
    Just one more spiritual “politician” who promises what he can’t deliver.
    Yoda: “The cult of personality is strong in this one.”

  4. Michael says:

    I feel sorry for you Adrian R. Crowder is majoring on the minors. And so are you if your theology lines up with his. You should really lookup the “mockers” you refer to Proverbs. Heretical false teaching is being adressed here.

  5. Bud Press says:

    Hi Adrian Rodriquez:

    As one Christian among many who has been appointed by the Lord to defend the faith (Jude 3), I am not “obsessed” with John Crowder. I am, however, “challenged” by Crowder to test what he says and teaches by God’s written word (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1).

    If what John Crowder says and teaches contradicts God’s written word, then Christians are under the Scriptural command to judge the fruit of his teachings by God’s word (Matthew 7:15-23). If they fail the tests, we are to reject them and expose them (Ephesians 5:11; 2 Corinthians 6:14; 2 Timothy 4:1-4; Galatians 1:6-9).

    Further, one need not hunt heresy, for it reaches out a slaps the discerning Christian and dares him or her to do something about it.

    Adrian, speaking of John Crowder, you stated that. “I bet he could run Biblical literacy circles around you any day of the week. You just don’t understand him, so you criticize what you don’t understand (Jude 9).”

    As one who has spent years witnessing to those in the cults and the New Age movement, I encountered some who had the ability to “run Biblical literacy circles around” the average Christian. However, when they were faced with the truth of God’s, in context, they found themselves “running around in circles” searching for answers from those who had deceived them in the first place.

    Finally, let’s take a look at Proverbs chapter 9:

    “He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself, and he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, reprove a wise man and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser, teach a righteous man and he will increase his learning. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding” (Proverbs 9:7-10, NASB).

    Proverbs chapter 9, in context, speaks of wisdom and its invitation to the gullible an naive. And he commentary that accompanies the chapter reads

    “It is vain to seek the company of wicked men in the hope of doing them good; we are far more likely to be corrupted by them. It is not enough to forsake the foolish, we must join those that walk in wisdom.”

    Yes, John Crowder is wise, but he is wise in his own eyes and in the eyes of those he has deceived–not the Lord’s. And I encourage you to read and study God’s word, alone, and seek His wisdom, instead of relying on the wisdom of man.

    In Christian love,
    Bud Press

  6. Chrystal says:

    Amen, Bud. Thank you.

  7. Bud Press says:

    Chrystal, may the Lord richly bless you and others who remain steadfast in the Lord and defend the faith–once for all delivered unto the saints (Jude 3).

    Bud Press

  8. Polycarp says:

    Chrystal, thanks for the video, and the strong stance. Bud, well said.

  9. G :) says:

    yeah – he is actually more like ‘mocking’ religion and it’s focus on tradition and form – I’ve watched quite a number of video’s now, enough to know what he is teaching and the integrity of his depth of revelation in God, and I can accept the seemingly weird ( well, ‘seemingly weird’ for me, anyway) methods.
    And I feel that some of his scriptural understandings are actually quite kosher, just maybe from a different perspective or even a deeper truth level than what we are used to.

    I think it would be wisdom not to slander this man as ‘being deceived; that actually could be said for any of us.
    Its okay to take a strong stance – but if that stance is wrong then it can be effective in leading others to reject someone who is a true minister of the gospel of Christ.

    • Chrystal says:

      We are to contend for the faith once handed down. Once! There is no second, third, or fourth doctrine to consider. One doctrine. Not standing for the faith isn’t Scriptural, and not exposing those who are in error is not Scriptural either. In becoming more like “Him,” we are able to spot false doctrine and warn others.

      Never join hands and sing kumbaya. It is a disservice to the Gospel.

  10. Ron Larson says:

    Bud,

    I agree with your statement taht we don’t have to go “looking for it”, when it comes to heresy, and spiritual maninpulation, it is prevalent within their ranks. Almost weekly, some financial “opportunity”, some hndred fold blsssing is ours…IF we pay them ofr it,a nd or their coreesponding Jesus junk, Theologically, while Croweder appears to have some othordoxy, most cults and false prophets do to an extent, the man is really withjout much discernment of wht he speaks with. His meetings are nothing more than chaotic, resckless opportunities for Crowder to be displayed as some sort of revivalist/superstar. More and more pulpits are allowing these reprobats to come entertain, and posture what they have seen..Jesus angles, the future,a nd it leads people to believe their experiences are normative and encouraged. They hate order because without the repetitive music, the theatrics, the fanciful tales..they really have little to offer.

  11. G :) says:

    I’d just like to add this; I don’t really believe that a lot of ‘defending the faith’ sites on the internet are actually doing that (‘defending the faith’ – rather, they can tend to be pushing their own interpretation or understanding of Scripture. This may, or may not, be the case for this specific ‘slaughteringthesheep’ site.

    I really feel that it is wise for many of the so-called ‘heretics’ to not respond to the claims of such sites – as it is God who does our defending.

    Most so-called ‘heresy-hunting’ sites are really only speaking to their own ‘converted’ – those who already have their own preconceived opinions on this minister or that pastor/person/preacher.

    Gamaliel once offered some wise counsel to the Sanhedrin ( I think it was the Sanhedrin – please forgive my spelling), when he said (paraphrased), ‘ If its not of God it will fail – if it’s of God, then leave it alone, else you’ll find yourself fighting against God.’

    Here’s a truth – there is absolutely no blessing to be received in judging or criticising (in the negative judgmental sense) – in fact that kind of heart attitude will only bring curses, NOT blessings. Nor does such ‘condemnation’ bring freedom – but rather can so easily lump us together with that ‘accuser of the brethren’ – which is a place where none of us really belong – if we truly belong to Christ.

    It so much smarter just drop the rhetoric, pray for a heart of love towards those we disagree with, and get on with our life of becoming more like HIM, the lover of our souls.

    There is so much more to be done in finding those things we can build up, rather than finding those things we can pull down.

    One facet of ‘ working out our salvation in fear and trembling’ is to not want to be found, even accidently, slipping over in the demonic realm of condemnation.

    Sorry for the long lecture

    ciao

    G:)

  12. lyn says:

    G.- Compare, word for word, what Crowder proclaims with scripture. The Word of God is what we use to measure truth, not our own personal interpretations. To label others as judgmental and heresy hunters is in fact to pass judgment. The very thing you accuse this site of, you yourself are guilty of.
    It is also worth noting that your commentary lacks any biblical evidence, which means it is nothing more than your opinion. That’s fine if you were discussing who will win the World Series, but there are countless souls at stake. To preach any other Gospel other than the one in Scripture is to lead people down the wide, or broad road. You seem to have a lopsided view of scripture, God is love, love, love. You desperately need to read the scriptures where God reveals His righteousness, His anger at and absolute hatred of sin. Don’t be deceived, God will NOT let the guilty go unpunished. “The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty.” Numbers 14:18
    If Crowder preaches a Gospel that does NOT include repentance and receiving Christ by faith, then he is preaching another gospel. If he is telling everybody to pray a prayer, or invite Jesus into their hearts, he is preaching another gospel. Salvation is of the Lord, there is not one thing you or I could do that would cause a Holy God to look upon us and save us. “For by GRACE are ye saved, through FAITH, and that not of yourselves; it is a GIFT of God, not of works, lest any man should boast”-Ephesians 2:8,9
    Rather than defend mortal men, defend the Word of God. Start by crying out for mercy. Pray God will be merciful to you and save you, if you are in fact still lost in sin. Does your spirit bear witness with His? Do you hate the sins you once loved? Do you loathe your old ways? Has God so done a work in your life that others take note and give Him glory? Has God given you a new heart and put His Spirit within you? {Ez. 36:26, 27}
    More often than not, those who cry the loudest when heresy is exposed are the very ones who are superficial in the faith. They believe the false teachings of men like Crowder because they like having their ears tickled, but abhor the thought of having their hearts pricked as to their true condition…lost,wicked, vile sinners separated from a Holy God because of their sins. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT good news unless you see just how sinful you really are in the eyes of the Lord. Bear in mind the example found in Scripture, “O God, be MERCIFUL to me, a SINNER!” Luke 18:13
    ‘Repent, and believe in the Gospel’

  13. Doug says:

    Just today I read how Jesus commended the church at Ephesus: “2‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3and you have perseverance and have endured for My name’s sake, and have not grown weary.”
    Rev 2:2
    Jesus commended the Ephesian Christians for testing apostles, for discovering who was false.
    They were discerning, and persevered. I think they’d be quite comfortable here at Slaughter of the Sheep. Keep up the great work, Chrystal! May God continue to Bless you and your ministry.

  14. TAR says:

    2Pe 2:1 — But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    Mocking God is never a good idea !

  15. M Allen says:

    Seems to me that Mr. Crowder is mocking Christians. He has been challenged by believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, so he mocks and ridicules the faithful Church as he begins his own shallow religion of mystical hidden knowledge (same old same old really, just another mystery religion). He has no depth of doctrine to defend himself and he mocks the true faith. False prophets always mock the truth and separate themselves and their new religion from other Christians. The “miracles, signs”, and emotionalism will eventually fade and his followers will be left with an empty set of falsehoods and lies.

  16. Denise says:

    We are commanded to look into those claiming to be teachers:

    Mat 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.

    That means we have to do some prodding and poking to see if the fruit is genuine or merely surface. Some “fruit” is actually poison. Some are decaying from the inside out. So we are told by God to not go by mere appearances but we are to judge with right judgement (John 7:24) which means with actual facts and reality, not a facade.

    Case in point: the Pharisees. They “appeared” to be “good” on the outside but Jesus said they were merely white-washed tombstones…looking clean on the outside but INSIDE they were dead and rotten.

    And btw, Scripture is replete with passages on judging and separating ourselves from false brothers/teachers/profits and to sound the alarm for the sheep and for HIS name sake.

  17. Wally says:

    It is really no surprise that heretics deny or ignore scripture. The Bible exposes them…

    Man has an innate desire for affiliation. They prefer ‘broad road’ social groups to churches because they can be made to feel comfortable about their lost state. Pray God will draw the lost to be saved. Once saved, a person will reject heresy as they are conformed to the image of Christ. I cite the gospel of John as my proof from scripture. Thanks.

    Wally
    Miami, FL

  18. G :) says:

    Dear lyn on July 22, 2009
    at 6:43 pm you wrote:
    “To label others as judgmental and heresy hunters is in fact to pass judgment. The very thing you accuse this site of, you yourself are guilty of.”

    Please point out to me where I ACTUALLY did that.

    Yes, it is my opinion, in the main – I’m not necessarily out to ‘preach’ something here, on this comment’s page -and if I was to preach to the lost, then why would I do it here where people are obviously christians ???!!!
    I didn’t realise this was a ‘preaching’ spot in cyberspace.

    On the preaching of repentance – there is of course a time beyond repentance ( that initial repentance etc when receiving Christ), when we go into to other facets of Christian life. I dont’ see Christ continually preaching ‘repentance’ – but continually announcing the ‘kingdom of God is at hand’ (though ‘repentance’ is obviously a component of that.

    And I can probably safely point out here, that although a lot of scripture is used – is there not the opportunity for it to be used out of context, or to prop up our own interpretation – this is also called ‘opinion’.

    But I still say that I have heard Crowder preach what I regard to be gospel truth. You may disagree of course – And you may be right or you may be wrong – or it may just be your opinion.

    But this why I gave the ‘gamaliel’ example – because we do make mistakes in how we view God’s servants and in how we interpret scripture.

    Often we use scriptures to prove that someone is a false pastor, false prophet, false whatever – but we merely quote that scripture because we believe that it apples to someone – when it might not. Just quoting a scripture – like ” TAR on July 23, 2009
    at 1:03 pm” does, doesn’t necessarily make a valid biblical point – and doesn’t legitimize that commentor’s opinion.

    Yes, we can follow the admonition of that scripture “2Pe 2:1″ by being aware that there will definitely be ‘false prophets’.

    And I will give a scripture Acts 2:21 “It will be, that whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.’” this is said in reference to the days when the son turns to blood etc – so it can have application to asking people if ‘they want to invite Jesus into their hearts’. It’s not a phrase I would use personally, but it people are led by the Holy Spirit to ask it then I’m not going to argue. For as you, Lyn, point out – there is the mercy of God, and, in relationship with that, there is also ‘love covers a multitude of sins’ – which I take as one facet of meaning, to include mistakes we might make in our eagerness to bring the lost to Christ – I mean, I don’t see the ‘sinner’s prayer’ (as such) in the bible, and I wouldn’t probably use it out in the street, but I wouldn’t condemn the use of it either.

    ciao

    G :)

  19. TAR says:

    G said
    “On the preaching of repentance – there is of course a time beyond repentance ( that initial repentance etc when receiving Christ), when we go into to other facets of Christian life. ”

    The saved know they need to repent daily, it, unlike salvation, is not a one time event.

    Daily the word of God reveals to me sins.
    The longer I walk the more I see myself as a sinner in need of the grace of God.

    There can be no “other facets” of our walk if we are not aware of the holiness and impeccability of God.
    Only His word drives me to our knees in gratitude that He would save one like me..

    Without that base the other facets are built on sand.

  20. lyn says:

    G~
    Your post reminds me of Satan’s response to Eve, “did God really say’. If we do not get the Gospel right, we have no affect for Christ.

    Then you claim ‘And I will give a scripture Acts 2:21 “It will be, that whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.’” this is said in reference to the days when the son turns to blood etc – so it can have application to asking people if ‘they want to invite Jesus into their hearts’
    You take this passage and claim it to mean to ‘invite Jesus into their hearts’? This is not what that passage says, or means, at all. Those who do call on the name of Christ do so after the Spirit of God has brought them to repentance. They cry out for mercy and forgiveness, not make a simple plea to as Jesus into their hearts. There is no passage in scripture to justify your statement.
    As for repentance, the true believer walks continually in repentance; your phrasing ‘other facets’ needs to be elaborated on with scripture.

    You state- ‘Most so-called ‘heresy-hunting’ sites are really only speaking to their own ‘converted’ – those who already have their own preconceived opinions on this minister or that pastor/person/preacher.’
    If you were not insinuating this judgmental statement toward this site, why did you say it?

    We are called to expose wolves, ‘And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them’ – Eph. 5:11

    As for this accusation by you, ‘And I can probably safely point out here, that although a lot of scripture is used – is there not the opportunity for it to be used out of context, or to prop up our own interpretation – this is also called ‘opinion’.
    I take this to be directed at me, if so, would you elaborate? Where did I take God’s word out of context? Whoever this opinion of yours is directed at, please support your claim with biblical proof.

    You seem confused, you accuse everyone of speaking ‘opinion’, yet, you think Crowder speaks truth? Scripture is given here to defend our claims, and you give nothing but a mild rebuke and an accusation of opinionated posts…God help you if you follow the false teachings of the wolves.
    This is NOT about simply disagreeing with this man, this is about exposing the error of his teaching. If it does not line up, word for word, with God’s word, it is heresy.

  21. Denise says:

    Ironically, the reference G makes to Acts 2 shows her “I won’t judge other’s ways and means of evangelism” notion as erroneous.

    Acts 2 is the first evangelical preaching by Peter. What did he do? Did he entertain the crowds? Play loud music? Try to be worldly and cool so they’d listen? Nope.He simply proclaimed Christ and Him crucified. Paul and Jesus Christ also did the same thing.

    2Cor. 6 says we are not to stay in the world, but BE SEPARATE from it. Romans 12:2 says we are not to engage in the world’s thinking. Col. 2 condemns philosphies and human traditions.

    Eph 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

    Eph 4:20 But that is NOT THE WAY YOU LEARNED CHRIST!– 21 assuming that you have heard about him and WERE TAUGHT in him, as the TRUTH IS IN JESUS, 22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

    Note that Christ is not taught to the unsaved OR saved by use of the unregenerate’s ways and means. Truth is not in lies nor are lies of the Truth. In order to proclaim the Gospel, G, one must KNOW The Gospel. God used a donkey once, but at least the donkey spoke Truth from God!

    1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

  22. SM says:

    Crowder is just another flim-flam man bilking money and adulation out of biblically illiterate Christians clamoring for the latest fad or emotional rush. As for Adrian Rs comments: I could care less about Crowder and your right Adrian, we shouldn’t spend our time rebuking Crowder, because he is neither wise or a Christian; he is an unregenerate sinner and a con artist. We do need to rebuke people who claim to believe the orthodox tenets of the faith for following this wolf.

  23. Chrystal says:

    In the pruning process I deleted a post that shouldn’t have been. My fault. So, I was able to get a copy of it in e-mail, and I want to post it here. The poster was respectful and did not violate my rules, so here is the post that got cut:

    Author: Ed Hart
    Comment:
    Well Said Adrian Rodriquez. John and Lilly definately mocking the heresy
    hunters. Don’t get me wrong some of what happens in Crowder circles makes me
    uncomfortable but John wrote a scholarly book on Christian Mystics. Well worth
    reading if you can get past the narrowminded attitudes. What Crowder brings to
    the table is the baby that was thrown out with the bath water during the
    Reformation.

    We definately need to test all things and also the spirit behind it. But if all
    we see is the devil – then there is something wrong with us.

    There are abuses, excesses and misinterpretations of scripture but that doesn’t
    invaildate what he shares just cause he’s different!!

    I appreciate those who challenage my views and don’t agree with me, for this is
    how I grown in my christian walk (for the past 21 yrs).

    Ed
    Cornwall UK

  24. Brad says:

    Brothers,

    I think it is strange that you are logged on and debating about a particular subject matter such as this, all the while there is one scripture that should incline you to stop.

    I have no opposition toward defending the faith, although you are trying to “defend the faith” by arguing with your brothers and sisters, which is clearly rebuked in Titus 3:9:

    “But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. ” (KJV)

    And if that is something you can not take as truth; just read on down.
    “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. ” Titus 3:10-11

    So sure, if those defending Crowder are wrong, and much as you may try, they will not be “set straight” in your eyes, then let them be. Don’t answer a fool.

    And if those defending that Crowder is a “falsey” are wrong and much as you may try, they will not be “set straight” in your eyes, then let them be. Don’t answer a fool.

    Moreover, for those who will rise up against my response and say “we must defend the faith!!!”
    Acts 5:34-39 seems to take care of the outlook you should have when there is clearly not going to be a resolve “who’s right”. Rather when someone comes to this page and looks for information about whether Crowder is legitimate or not, they will find a argument in which they will read one post and start thinking Hes a “fakey” and by the next post He will be a “real-y”

    Acts 5:34-39
    ” 34Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

    35And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

    36For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

    37After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

    38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

    39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. ”

    If its God, you can’t stop it, but if It’s not God, It ain’t standing….. so relax.

    • Chrystal says:

      Brad, you said:

      “I have no opposition toward defending the faith, although you are trying to “defend the faith” by arguing with your brothers and sisters, which is clearly rebuked in Titus 3:9:”

      Scripture tells us that we have to be on alert because wolves would arise from among our own selves. Consider this:

      This is Paul speaking to the Ephesian elders…

      Acts 20:28-32:

      28 “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
      29 “I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
      30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
      31 “Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.
      32 “And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

      As tasteless as it may seem to some, we have to be on alert, even to beware of those who labor among us. For not all abide in Christ.

  25. lyn says:

    The passages from Acts are a reference to men of God preaching the truth, not heretics spewing out lies. To use these verses in this situation is to take the verses out of context.
    The point is, it ISN’T from God. Your argument really does not hold water. Those who defend this heretic are not my brothers and sisters in Christ. You have misused Titus 3:9 by assuming followers of this heretic are in Christ. If they truly belonged to Jesus, they would NOT defend this heretic. They are under the great delusion and are currently suffering the judgment of God because they refuse to love the truth.
    Instead of blasting true believers, watch and compare what Crowder says with what scripture says.

  26. fourpointer says:

    Brad,

    So, according to your misuse of Scripture, the following things are of God:

    Islam (been around for 1400 years)
    Mormonism (180 years)
    Jehovah’s Witnesses (125 years)
    Christian Science (125 years)
    Seventh-Day Adventists (165 years)

    All these false religions that claim to be leading people to God have been around a whole lot longer than blasphemers like John Crowder. Does that mean those false religions are “of God” because they’ve been around so long?

    PS–The reason we spend so much time defending the faith against heresies like this is so that the new and/or weak believers don’t get drawn into such an abomination, and can have a reason for avoiding them.

  27. reggieman says:

    Hey guys, lighten up! G’s example of Gameliel was spot on. If he’s wrong then let God sort him out.
    Make a difference in your own spheres of influence and stop trying to change something you have no control over. Instead of wasting countless hours finding fault in others, why not spend those hours witnessing to your friends, or proclaiming the Good News of Christ on the highways and byways, or even seeking God for direction in your own lives.

  28. Bud Press says:

    reggieman:

    As we witness to our friends and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ in the highways and byways, what do you suggest we do when we encounter atheists, evolutionists, cultists, occultists, false prophets, heretics, and people who think that being “good” will get them into heaven?

    Should we,

    A: Leave them alone and let God sort it out?
    B: Simply pray for them and hope they find their own “sphere of influence”?
    C: Join hands with them, seek what we have in common, and dance around in a field of tulips singing, “Im Okay and You’re Okay”?
    D: Obey the commands of Scripture and provide answers, defend the faith, expose the evil works of darkness, and share the truth in love?

    reggieman, the “fault” is not with people, but with what they teach. And if what they teach does not line-up with what God has established in His written word, then they may be on their way to eternal separation from God in hell.

    NO! This is not the time to “lighten up!” God established His guidelines thousands of years ago. The battle for precious souls for whom Jesus Christ died for continues to be waged, and it will continue until Jesus returns.

    In the meantime, Christians are commanded to put on the full armor of God, stick their faces in the hornets’ nest of spiritual warfare, and remain steadfast in the Lord (Ephesians 6:10-18).

    Finally, Christians are under the Scriptural command to: test all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1); preach the word (2 Timothy 4:1-2); guard and warn fellow Christians (Acts 20:27-31); boldly defend the faith (1 Timothy 6:12; Jude 3); expose the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11-12; 2 Corinthians 4:4); and tell the truth in love (Ephesians 4:14-15).

    Now, reggieman, tell us what we should do, as well as what you are going to do.

    In Christian love,
    Bud Press

  29. Wally says:

    Bud Press is exactly right. We have to address heresy, warn others of the wrath to come, and spread the gospel to our neighbors.

    Why do people like reggieman automatically assume that when we address heresy that we are doing nothing else? Addressing heresy is not our exclusive duty as Bud Press so eloquently mentioned.

    It reminds me of kids on the playground in elementary school. Reggieman and his friends play an unsafe game and someone tells the teacher to protect Reggieman and his friends from themselves. Reggieman and his friends shout about people stopping thier fun. They are oblivious to the dangers they have been warned about. They claim that all the teachers want to do is spoil their fun.

    In reality, we have much, much more to do than expose heresy. When we see heresy, however, we must stop what we are doing and address it. If we do not address it, others will begin to assume that the heresy is accepable behavior because no one is calling it out. The concept is called ‘implied endorsement’.

    Carry on, chosen few. Preach, teach, expose, warn, help, serve, love… and stay faithful until the Lord returns.

  30. David Green says:

    To reggieman, Brad and G:) – there is an interesting post on another site that you may find helpful. The site is called endtimespropheticwords and the post is entitled ‘Gamaliel’s Advice – The Refuge of Wolves, Scoundrels and Con Men’.

  31. G :) says:

    Thought I’d drop in and see how the ruckus was going!

    Thanks David – I’ll go look.

    Thanks for all you comments folks – even if I don’t necessarily agree with them.

    While we may disagree on points of scripture (how appropriate they are to certain points) and on opinions – Chrisit is still looking for uniity in His body – a unity based out of a love for Him and a love for each other. And if we tend to live in a spirit of criticism -if we do, I say – we will of all men be most impoverished; not to mention, blinded to the goodness of God in the lives of others. :)

    So I suppose I better just say – So Long, and thanks for all the fish!”

    G :)

  32. G :) says:

    Okay read that – just came back for a sardine snack.

    Yes, David, that was an interesting perspective by Steve Lumbly – but it still doesn’t undo the spirit of Gamaliel’s advice; in other words what is not of God will fail – [we’ve read the end of the book and we know this] – eventually. another perspective of what Gamaliel is saying could be wrapped up in this phrase = God is well able to defend Himself.
    {all this is opinion of mine,of course – I’m labeling it that}
    One doesn’t just have to have dragged some so -called heretics into a courtroom or before the Board of Deacons, to be guilty of ‘fighting God’ – to be guilty of fighting God can refer to anytime anywhere. Mr LUmbly’s point is only his perspective -as is my point only mine.

    But ‘fighting God’ is still, today, a danger – and not as condition I’d like to find myself in.

    Many things will look weird – but could still be of God – so we should tread warily, lest we find ourselves indeed ‘fighting God’.

    ciao

    G :)

  33. G :) says:

    Oh, for the Acts 2 bit – it is on record that the first century church was birthed in an appearance that made onlookers wonder if the disciples were drunk – bit weird don’t you think?

    just an addendum to my last post.

    Now its time to go read some more of John Crowder’s The New Mysticxs book :) – it’s really eye-opening.

    G :)

    • Chrystal says:

      People thought they were drunk because they were speaking different languages, not because they were staggering around like a sot saying, “doiyee, doiyee, doiyee.” In fact, what people heard were them speaking in their own tongues, and what they were speaking were the mighty deeds of God. Now, if you can prove by Scripture they were acting like drunks, I’d like to see it. Oh, and use Acts 2 as your prooftext, please.

  34. Wally says:

    It is amazing what passes for ‘spiritual’ these days: Crowder, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, EC, and others.

    It is just more proof that peple do not know or want the Bible.

    The staggering and falling down, laughing uncontrollably, mumbling incoherently, and other such nonsense is either being enjoyed by some for entertainment or may be the indication of a false fire serving to condemn the participants IMHO.

    Is it blasphemy to do such shinanigans in the name of the Holy Spirit? I am afraid that it might be. These people are attributing absurd behavior to the Spirit even though there is no proof from scripture that anyone acted like this under the Spirit’s influence.

    One thing has always been curious to me about the ‘charimatics’. Where do they get the info on what is and is not of the Spirit? They have a bunch of ideas and no scripture to back it up. When they do use scripture, it is out of context and wildly creative in the interpretation.

    If you took Crowders followers and put them in a room where there was Bible study and God-centered music without the sensory-overload of emotion and ecstatic locomotion, would they stay or leave? I believe they would split due to a lack of entertainment and fun. It is the latter they are seeking and not God (in many cases).

  35. truthinator says:

    Check out this link to see this madman in action:

    http://www.apologeticsindex.org/778-john-crowder-sons-of-thunder

    He claims that a woman with a glass eye began to see through it at one of his ‘healing’ services…

    This guy seems stoned to me. This is what happens when people with no discernment form churches…

  36. Adrian Rodriquez says:

    Isn’t it something the way Jesus said blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin?

    Who did He say this to? People who were laughing, or shaking on the floor or using cultural contexts for the gospel? No.

    He said it to people who accused him of being demonic.

    I know that people tend to think they are very, very, very right because they spend their entire lives — blood, sweat and tears — believing a certain way about how God works. But still, we all “see in part” the apostle Paul says. None of us sees the big picture in its entirety, we just know that ultimately, Jesus IS the big picture.

    Since there’s a minute chance that we don’t know everything about Jesus and how He works — do you guys think it may be “on the safe side” NOT to accuse a “Jesus-is-Lord professing” minister of the gospel as being demonic??

    Seems there are some pretty high stakes for accusing His messengers in this way.

    Because if that one little sliver of a chance proves that we are wrong in our accusation, isn’t it possible … just a teeny weeny bit possible … that we could be blaspheming the very work of God?

    Not saying Crowder is perfect, or that you have to agree with everything he does or says. But attacking someone God is using is high stakes gambling.

    Maybe Crowder’s ministry is an odd-looking work. Maybe a work we don’t understand or have never seen before. But is it worth that little percentage of playing Russian roulette with our souls to accuse him, then find later on that WE were the ones wrong? You may just want to count the cost a bit more before you keep ranting about him. This is, after all, a kingdom of holy love. And the Gamaliel example proves that God can sort out his own messes.

    After all, the guy’s doctrinal statement proves he is an orthodox Christian theologically. You can say he doesn’t really believe it, but that’s subjective opinion. Besides, the content of all his teachings would prove that he does. You could say he has mixed fruit, but many people have been saved because they met Jesus through his ministry. Can you say the same for your own ministry? Let’s be honest, some people just criticize others, but aren’t doing much themselves.

    I know people who have traveled with him, and they have seen homosexuals get delivered, marriages restored, drug addicts set free and Jesus Christ of Nazareth continually glorified and preached in all of it. And unless you just want to deny proven, verifiable facts — tons of people have been miraculously healed of pretty major physical issues from deafness to blindness to cancer by God through this ministry. I’ve seen this myself. It happens a lot … maybe you’ve never seen things like this before, but does that make it untrue, just because you haven’t seen it?

    Crowder is not the issue. But God definitely moves in strange ways at times. Very often, He moves in an offensive way to our religious minds.

    The guy is “strange” in HOW he ministers, but he’s also very clear in his lengthy, well-documented, and thoroughly Biblically referenced Christian books that the reason he does these strange things is to shock and wake people up to areas of the faith they have never explored such as: supernatural joy, miracles and the finished works of the cross (which is in absolute opposition to the religious legalism one finds in many of these types of blogs).

    Of course, I know that many of you feel you are perfect in your “righteous judgment” of everyone, and that you have some special type of just cause from the Lord to bring people down. I hope you are absolutely, infallibly perfect in your interpretations of everything. The Bible is right. It’s our interpretations of it that can get us into trouble.

    I know you’ve likewise invested lots of time and effort in your blogging, and it is impossible for me to change your mind. These can be little bully pulpits for immature, accusatory believers. But maybe God can change your mind. Maybe you could one day see that it’s not worth the risk of accidentally tearing someone down who is on your own team. You are gambling with high stakes.

    Maybe we could begin to find positive uses for our time, such as building up the kingdom, preaching the gospel, serving the poor or doing a bible study blog. Maybe find an encouraging thing to say about someone that you DO agree with. Edifying and building up the body of Christ is far more beneficial than tearing down those you don’t agree with on every jot and tittle.

    • Chrystal says:

      We don’t believe a certain way, we believe Scripture, and when you look at everything through the lense of Scripture, it makes things extremely clear.

      As for Crowder’s doctrinal statement, that proves nothing. Jesus said there would be many in that day who would cry to Him “Lord, Lord” and performed many miracles in His name, yet they would not enter in.

      As for the risk of tearing into someone who is “on our own team,” God’s ability to make us wise through His Word destroys any ambivalence that would make it possible for us to do that. If we can’t look at a heretic and call him or her a heretic, or have the ability to do that through God’s Word, then there truly is no hope of ever having a clear and undefiled gospel.

      Keep joining hands with them and singing “Give Peace a Chance” if you want to. We will follow the directives of Scripture and separate from them, and even expose them, as we’re told to do.

  37. Truth Seeker says:

    Adrian,

    Thanks for posting. I am not saying that Crowder’s style or personal opinion has no value because I do not like it…I am saying that I see no evidence that he is connected to the Bible. I have seen a few clips of him ranting, mumbling incoherently, speaking like a drunk person who cannot complete a thought, and other such nonsense. He then attributes this stuff to being ‘drunk in the Spirit’. This is dangerous. It could be blasphemy if he is attributing garbage to the Spirit.

    Where are the clips of Crowder teaching from the Bible and sincerely weeping over the lost souls in his community?

    He seems to merely be putting on a show
    and the crowd is having a Pavlovian Dog response…

    Some of you guys say that people like me are ‘judging’ and ‘intolerant’ and you are correct. We must judge and fail to tolerate people who parade nonsense in the name of our God. If not, the jesters will take over the court and God will judge us all.

    Much of the New Testament deals with combatting false belief systems and protecting the faith. Why is this? Probably because that is what God wants us to do. Apparently the world will continue to face false prophets until the end. The false prophets will disguise themselves very cleverly. They will likely speak half truths, partial truths, and sounds-almost-right doctrines. These will lead many astray.

    Why do you, Adrian, assume that Crowder deserves a pass? Read his website. It sort of reads like a hippie flop joint ad. I know it mentions Jesus and has a doctrine statement. You have to consider the entire body of his work. Is he consistent with scripture and does he show a love for the real God represented in the Bible?

    Many goat herders are out there showing people a new and different way to ‘do church’. It is entertaining, fun, exciting, interesting, and amusing to the lost. However, it never does what the scripture describes as the mission of the church to the world. Crowder and others are operating entertainment emporiums not chrches.

    Love is not defined as entertaining people as you systematically lead them astray and keeping them mesmerized while keeping them from the truth.

    There is no peace outside of the real God and His kingdom. The Bible is the only book given to us from God. We should focus upon it and not some technique du jour.

  38. lyn says:

    Here’s Crowder’s claim to ‘meeting Jesus’. I have included questions concerning some of what this man claims…
    “My deliverance was sudden. I was in a bar on an acid trip one night {where, in scripture, do we ever see Jesus reveal Himself to someone who is under the influence of drugs/alcohol?}, when instantly my eyes were opened to the spiritual realm {I wonder, what exactly is the ‘spiritual realm?}. Of course, under such circumstances, I was only aware of the demonic activity around me, and it freaked me out {how does he know this ‘realm’ was not demonic as well?}. I somehow knew what people were thinking before they spoke, and I knew things that were about to happen before they occurred {where in God’s word has this ever taken place?}. The enemy began to trigger into the prophetic call that he saw on my life, and I was gripped with fear{does this make any sense to anyone?}. Suddenly, I knew beyond a doubt that I was going to die that night and in a way, I did {so, did he think he was facing physical death at first? If not, what prompted him to say he knew he was going to die?}.” from http://www.thenewmystics.com/Articles/1000041072/Sons_of_Thunder/About_Us/John_and_Lily/Johns_Story.aspx
    The fact that he states he grew up Pentecostal explains much.
    So Jesus speaks to people under the influence of acid?!? Crowder claims he could ‘read people’s minds’, this sounds like demonic forces at work. I find no example in scripture where anyone could read minds. This man is fueled by demonic spirits indeed. NOWHERE does he state any brokenness over sin, repenting or being born again.
    Those who follow this terribly deceived lost soul are under God’s judgment. They have been placed under deceptive ministries like this because they refuse to love the truth of God’s word. NOTHING Crowder claims in his ‘encounter’ with Jesus lines up with what scripture teaches.

    There are no examples in God’s word of anyone using alcohol/drugs to ‘experience Jesus’. Crowder’s own confession of over-indulging in both of these explains why he’s included them in his ministry. Yet, we do not find it in scripture. Here is what God’s word says about drugs/alcohol abuse…
    Revelation 9:21 – “And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.” {Sorceries – Greek-pharmakeia [where we get our word ‘pharmacy’ from] Meaning ‘the use or the administering of drugs, sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it, the using of any kind or drugs, potions, or spells’.
    What happens to those who refuse to repent of their drug/alcohol abuse? “I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. ” Luke 13:3

  39. lyn says:

    I would like to add a quote from John MacArthur I read at Ken Silva’s http://www.apprising.org site…

    “I think that it is so important to know this. In a time like this of tolerance, listen, false teaching will always cry intolerance. It will always say you are being divisive, you are being unloving, you are being ungracious, because it can only survive when it doesn’t get scrutinized. So it cries against any intolerance. It cries against any examination, any scrutiny—just let’s embrace each other; let’s love each other; let’s put all that behind us.

    False doctrine cries the loudest about unity. Listen carefully when you hear the cry for unity, because it may be the cover of false doctrine encroaching. If ever we should follow 1 Thessalonians 5, and examine everything carefully, it’s when somebody is crying unity, love, and acceptance.” John MacArthur

  40. Ilana Ahava says:

    Right on Adrian. Many within the Body (and without) have their own interpretation of what the unforgivable sin is, when in reality, it is simply attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to that of the devil. The context of that entire passage of Scripture refers to those who accused Jesus of performing His miracles courtesy of Beelzebub.

    I would be very careful when judging something based on perception alone, and I would be even more careful to judge the intent of one’s heart.

    I have been good friends with John Crowder for years now, and as one who has seen him apart from the ministry you scrutinize, I can guarantee you that his zeal and passion for the Lord is absolutely authentic and inspiring.

    If every vessel of God ministered in the same way, it would equiponderate the analogy that we are all hands without feet, and eyes without ears. What use would a body be without every part functioning in its own way, yet interdependently?

    This ministry may not resonate with you, but it is certainly resonating with those who are turned off by “decency and order.”

    The man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. Maybe you should cease the argument, and experience what you know not for yourself….

    • Chrystal says:

      Every vessel of God may not minister in the same way, but they must be Biblical regardless.

      Zeal for the Lord does not prove he is teaching sound doctrine. Many will have zeal, and many will hear, “‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.” (Matthew 7:23) Scripture indicts or acquits him. He has been indicted by God’s Word because he does not follow it.

      You turn up your nose at “decency and order.” Funny, but Scripture mandates it (1 Corinthians 14:40). Are you going to surgically snip that part out of God’s Word? If so, you better snip out the rest of it because we can’t pick and choose what we want to obey and expect to abide in Christ.

      As for experience… salvation is by faith, not experience. Experience can lead you straight into Hell, because Satan can and does create experiences that people mistake for the Holy Spirit. God’s Word is our source of truth – not experiences. Study it without the taint of mysticism and it is marvelous and nourishing.

  41. truthinator says:

    Si, Chrystal es correcto! Experiences are as reliable as feelings…not very. The Bible (Proverbs) says there is a way that seemeth right to man but the end is the way of death. It was contrasting wise steps against fooish ones.

    Let compare and contrast, shall we? A Biblical preacher pours over his sermon and bathes it in prayer wanting out sovereign God to do a righteous work in a lost world. John Crowder staggers onto the stage and barks like a dog and ionks like a pig… then he continues by mumbling incoherent foolishness and doen refer to scripture contextually at all.

    Hum, I wonder which is wise and which is foolish…

    Wake up, Ilana. Get off the Pavlovian Express and go to a real church to hear the word of God.

  42. lyn says:

    This bears repeating, ‘Those who follow this terribly deceived lost soul are under God’s judgment. They have been placed under deceptive ministries like this because they refuse to love the truth of God’s word.’
    My scriptural reference to this is from 2 Thess. ‘[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.’

  43. Bud Press says:

    Ilana Ahava wrote: “I have been good friends with John Crowder for years now, and as one who has seen him apart from the ministry you scrutinize, I can guarantee you that his zeal and passion for the Lord is absolutely authentic and inspiring.”

    Zeal? Passion for the Lord? Since when does “zeal” and “passion” signify authenticity? It doesn’t.

    Every Jehovah’s Witness and Mormon missionary I have encountered demonstrated “zeal” and “passion,” but they served a counterfeit “Jesus” (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4).

    “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ” (Romans 10:17).

    “Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God” (Colossians 3:16).

    While the above posts that defend John Crowder demonstrate “zeal” and “passion,” they also demonstrate just how deceived and alluring John Crowder and his followers are.

    But to those who truly love the Lord, God’s written word counteracts the words of false teachers, and shines light into the darkest of hearts.

    In Christian love,
    Bud Press

  44. G :) says:

    Having now read lots of Crowder’s ‘New Mystics’ book, and the two latest Jesus Trip vids, I must admit that …… I really like this guy, and believe him to be a genuine minister of Christ. I am more convinced of this now than before.
    I know you won’t all agree – but that’s OK.
    Thanks for all the blessing that you guys are heaping upon me – it is good to have more faith in the Holy Spirit to guide into all truth, than fear in the devil’s ability to deceive.
    Now here’s a point that may not be accepted – but I believe that the Joel prophesy about God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh, is not a specific and definitive list of the only things that the Sprit is going to pour out upon all flesh, but is just giving a token example of the many and various types of Holy Spirit manifestation that will be poured out upon all flesh.

    G :)

    • Chrystal says:

      The fact that you believe Crowder to be a genuine minister of Christ tells us much about your ability to discern, and additionally, your knowledge of God’s Word. I sincerely hope you will lay aside all peripheral sources and study God’s Word literally, truthfully, and with much prayer.

  45. mitchelle says:

    okay, response to some one way up there on this argument, so if you went to the mall, and there was someone speaking a different language, you would think they were drunk? have you EVER been around a drunk? wow, cuz id sure be happy if drunks, acted normal, and only crazy thing they did was talk in a different language. but no, instead, their balance is off, they sway, cant see straight, and do stupid stuff. its better to be drunk in the spirit than drunk by mans own ways. judge the fruits not the man, thats God’s job. and to someone else, who cant believe that God would meet someone where there at, and reveal himself… have you never listend to testimonies? have you never witnessed to people on the street? do you not know that Jesus said you will do great things? ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE

  46. G :) says:

    Dear Crystal,
    BTW thank you for even allowing me to make comments on your site – even if you don’t agree with them. I was on a site recently, tried to make some comments, and the person, who monikered themselves as ‘godsplumbline’ – (pretty bold really) – wouldn’t allow any comments that differed from his own, and even replied via youtube’s email method. So good on you for not being so insecure that you can’t only have differing views aired.

    Now – apart from your recent; comments to me – of which,of course, I have to say, I agree with them :) – but really you overrate my intellectual ability to discern, as it is not that good really; I prefer to rely on the Holy Spirit to lead me, precept upon precept etc.

    Obviously we a could all say on this blog – ‘oh, yuou’re wrong and I’m right’ – but that doesn’t really make for reasonable christian dialogue.

    <<>>

    God Bless –

    G :)

    • Chrystal says:

      G:

      It’s coming to the point where I will no longer approve your comments. It’s not that I mind a dissenting point of view – they’re everywhere. I can no longer allow you to post here and promote heretics like John Crowder. You will not see reason or listen to Scriptural truth. There comes a time when you’ve got to shake the dust.

      You admit you have no discernment – or at least that your discernment is not good. That is apparent. Yet, while admitting you have little discernment, you eagerly wade into the cesspool of the mystics and embrace their theology. That’s tantamount to getting into a shootout without a bulletproof vest, or any other armor to protect you. I would think you would tremble at the thought of stumbling into error and walk with caution, prayerfully considering God’s Word, and letting it be your guide. But, you don’t. You dive head first into it.

      I deleted the links to the videos you posted. You know what we stand for here, and it has been proven time and again that Crowder and Dunn are blasphemous false teachers. I won’t allow any promotion of them here.

      In the end, if I stand for literal Scriptural truth, I can’t be held responsible if you reject it. I’m not responsible for how you believe, or what heresy you swallow. But, I am responsible for what I allow you to promote on my site. You’ve said all you can say, and people have tried to reason with you scripturally. You choose to remain blind, and are willing to disregard the truth and believe a lie. While sad, I cannot force you to see the deception that has you bound. I gave you room to speak, but now it’s done.

  47. G :) says:

    Dear Bud, re ”
    Ilana Ahava wrote: “I have been good friends with John Crowder for years now, and as one who has seen him apart from the ministry you scrutinize, I can guarantee you that his zeal and passion for the Lord is absolutely authentic and inspiring.””

    I think you misinterpreted her words here – she, as a friend of John Crowder, is actually giving you a character witness, if you please. And she said that the ‘zeal and passion’ were authentic – she didn’t that those qualities (which should be PART if Christian realationship/lifestyle) meant that his ministry was authentic – her personal witness is actually saying that.

    And I submit to you, that your comments – “While the above posts that defend John Crowder demonstrate “zeal” and “passion,” they also demonstrate just how deceived and alluring John Crowder and his followers are.” – could also be used upon yourself – your zeal and passion on this blog may also demonstrate how deceptive you are – could they not????

    Just because you – or I – say certain things; act in certain manner – is no guarantee that we aren’t being deceptive or even deceived.

    I could use this very scripture that you used – against you.
    ““Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God” (Colossians 3:16).”

    You see we can go around saying this scripture applies to that person – when it could equally apply to the person quoting the scripture.

    If I called you a ‘false prophet’ and then quoted the scripture cautioning us to be aware of false prophets – you could also turn around and say that you’re not a false prophet but that I am.

    In other words – its a ‘no brainer’ to just use a scripture to justify my personal opinion.

    Anyway – here’s the guts of it:

    Eph 6:12 “For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

    Here’s why we shouldn’t ‘demonise’ people in our blogs – why even ‘judgmental’ comments, or critical comments, are misplaced.

    Instead we should concentrate on radically passionately extravagantly growing closer to Jesus, The Father, and Holy Spirit – and pray what He wants us to pray, so that He can continue, even through us, to destroy the works of the devil – the works of those “spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

    God bless you

    G :)

  48. G :) says:

    on Acts 2: here’s my take – which may not be yours – ” 12* And they were all amazed, and were perplexed, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
    13* But others mocking said, They are filled with new wine.”

    The 120 were originally in this upper room, the sound of a wind comes in, fiery tongues of flame appear upon them – they get FILLED with the Holy Spirit, and they speak in other tongues. so they must have come out of the upper room at some stage, to have been visible to the ‘multitude that came together’ to witness these 120 filled with the Holy Spirit.

    Now Paul, later on, says “1Co 13:1* Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels” – indicating that the gift of ‘tongues’ ( of which many still think are of the devil – even with scripture calling it a gift of the Holy Spirit) – was not just ethnic/earth languages, but also ‘unknown’ tongues.
    They could have been speaking in both earth and angelic tongues, yet the Holy Spirit was giving the multitude the supernatural ability to hear the ‘mighty works of God’ spoken in their own ethnic language.

    Even if they were only speaking earth-languages on that day – 1) it’s be hard to pick out your own language amidst all the babble that was going on; and 2) why would some call them ‘drunk’ if they are only speaking on earth-tongues – which would be understandable.

    And even Peter says “Ac 2:15* For these are not drunken, as ye suppose; seeing it is but the third hour of the day.” He says ‘as you suppose’ – quite possibly implying that indeed they did in appearance look drunk, but not because of alcoholic consumption.

    And these 120 – just having experienced such incredible supernatural phenomena – wind sounds; tongues of fire – had also been FILLED with the Holy Spirit – something that was not a common experience for the masses. Peter goes on to say ” And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: ” – so it would have looked pretty wild to the ‘multitudes gathered’.

    In Old T when Holy Spirit just came upon someone – like King Saul – it looked pretty wild then!!

    Also just a note – historically, the ‘decently and in order’ of the Holy Spirit out-pouring on people has not been the same human definition of ‘decently and in order’. Of course, we could use the scripture here – “‘Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.” – to say that God’s definition of a number of things may differ from how we humans might define things.

    So dear Ilana doesn’t have to “surgically snip that part out of God’s Word” – to be valid in her comment. or her christian beliefs

    God bless –

    G :)

  49. G :) says:

    Dear TAR, re your comment on July 26, 2009.

    The other facets I meant were the fruits of the Spirit; theevidence, if you like, that repentance has happened. Such facets/fruits as JOY!!!

    And while repentance can be a lifestyle – it doesn’t have to be one of daily beating one’s own breast.

    Doesn’t scripture say that the saved one is DEAD to sin ? What mus that look like???

    I rejoice because I have come to repentance -now I gotta go carry my cross daily.

    Christ’s blood has paid for my past and future sins – but of course we do still have to repent when we ‘stumble’ – but we should ALSO be going from glory to glory – and from milk to meat – “Heb 6:1* So let us get beyond the teaching of the elementary doctrines of Christ, and let us be borne along toward what is mature. Let us not be continually laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works,” – then the other facets are PEACE GENTLES etc and even LOVE which is defined in 1 Cor 13: 4-7 Love suffers long and is kind; love envies not; love makes no parade, is not puffed up,
    is not rude, nor selfish, nor easily provoked. Love bears no malice, never rejoices over wrong-doing,
    but rejoices when the truth rejoices.
    It knows how to be silent, it is trustful, hopeful, patient, enduring.

    Ah, yes – so in reading that scripture, I must apologise for where I have lacked love for any of you, where I might have gotten too emotional in my responses

    God Bless

    G :)

  50. darklight says:

    Hi Crystal…I see that this G character has got up your nose now.

    I dont expect you to put this comment on just like my last but it is becming clear that you and those whom you assoicate with on this blogspace are of one mind and are so locked into what you beelive is true that anyone who disturbs that wall of belief is silenced.

    Your form of Christianity is not about a freedom of speech or expression…it is your interpretation of the book or nothing at all. You will sit there on the thorne of your theology and hold hands with thiose that agree with you and silence those that disagree.

    I just hope that you are right…really I do.

    Take care :)

    Love, Peace and Respect to you

  51. Carol says:

    There are people who have strong devotions, unfortunately, they follow false religions. While their “zeal” may be real and very strong, they are still bound for the eternal lake of fire without Jesus as Lord in their lives.

    Someone may think these false teachers are zealous, and maybe they are, BUT when they teach false doctrine and lure people into false beliefs, it’s a dangerous thing. Because these false teachers are not only living in darkness, they are leading others in darkness as well.

    I feel so sorry for these people who feel they have to defend their pet false teacher. You need to have a solid foundation of faith on the Word of God. You will NOT have that if you do no read the Word of God and study it for yourself. If you allow others to teach you their things, you will not know how to accurately handle the Word of Truth when you don’t know it. You will not be aware of false teachers because you don’t know what the real truth is, so when false teaching comes, you’ll fall for it.

    We are trying to warn people of the dangers of following these blind guides. It’s not easy for us to see these dangerous teachings taking place, but it’s wrong for us not to speak up about them.

    We must warn the people to stay away from these circus acts. They are NOT of God.

  52. Bud Press says:

    Please allow me to use the following questions and answers to illustrate an important point.

    Question: How many lies must a person tell before he or she becomes a liar? Answer: 1

    Question: If you tell the truth 99% of the time, what are you? Answer: A liar

    Question: How many false prophecies does it take to become a false prophet? Answer: 1

    Concerning the “Lord” and the “Cancellation of debts,” on January 12, 2006, John Crowder prophesied that, “This strengthening in the natural activities in life is going to be accompanied by a grace to get out of indebtedness. The Lord will be canceling, as well as helping believers to pay off their debts this year, especially as they work toward implementing better stewardship and organization” (“Prophetic Words and Directives for 2006,” http://tinyurl.com/of29c5 ).

    Notice the words John Crowder used in the above paragraph: “The Lord will be canceling, as well as helping believers to pay off their debts this year…”

    John Crowder did not state “might” or “maybe,” he stated “The Lord “WILL be canceling” debts in 2006.

    It is obvious that John Crowder’s prophecy failed, due to the fact that there are Christians who are still in debt. And if you have just an ounce of discernment, you will find additional problems in John Crowder’s “Prophetic Words” article.

    Now, some may say, “Gee, John Crowder simply made a mistake” or “He was taking a siesta that day” or “Nobody is 100% accurate all the time.”

    Not so, according to God’s written word; for when a person claims to be a prophet of God, but his or her prophecy fails, he or she is a false prophet and is to be avoided (Deuteronomy 18:20-22; Matthew 7:15-23).

    Thousands of years ago, the prophet Jeremiah encountered his share of false prophets. As such, the Lord spoke to him and set the record straight:

    “Then the LORD said to me, ‘The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds'” (Jeremiah 14:14).

    Hmm, “deception of their own minds.”

    Fast-forward to 2009. God’s word hasn’t changed. A lie is still a lie. False is still false. And, by his own written admission, John Crowder is a false prophet.

    So, what’s the important point? All false prophets have at least one thing in common: false prophecies.

    And as history repeats itself, one would think that when a self-proclaimed “prophet” is caught in a false prophecy, he would confess the sin, repent, and leave the prophetic to those of whom God chose as prophets in the first place.

    But in many cases, when a false prophet’s false prophecies are exposed, they generally disappear from a reprinted book or website, and in a flurry of excuses from dedicated followers who have been subtly conditioned to believe a lie and defend the false prophet–instead of trusting in God’s written word and defending the truths therein.

    Almighty God, please deliver us from the flurry of wigglers who claim to speak on Your behalf, but are, in reality, wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    Sincerely in Christ,
    Bud Press

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